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The Bacchae
Euripides' classic drama about the often mortifying consequences of the unbridled--and frequently hysterical--celebration of the feast of Dionysus, the God of wine.
96 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 406
About the author
Euripides
2,603 books1,561 followers(Greek: Ευριπίδης )
Euripides (Ancient Greek: Εὐριπίδης) (ca. 480 BC–406 BC) was the last of the three great tragedians of classical Athens (the other two being Aeschylus and Sophocles). Ancient scholars thought that Euripides had written ninety-five plays, although four of those were probably written by Critias. Eighteen of Euripides' plays have survived complete. It is now widely believed that what was thought to be a nineteenth, Rhesus, was probably not by Euripides. Fragments, some substantial, of most of the other plays also survive. More of his plays have survived than those of Aeschylus and Sophocles together, partly because of the chance preservation of a manuscript that was probably part of a complete collection of his works in alphabetical order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euripides
Euripides (Ancient Greek: Εὐριπίδης) (ca. 480 BC–406 BC) was the last of the three great tragedians of classical Athens (the other two being Aeschylus and Sophocles). Ancient scholars thought that Euripides had written ninety-five plays, although four of those were probably written by Critias. Eighteen of Euripides' plays have survived complete. It is now widely believed that what was thought to be a nineteenth, Rhesus, was probably not by Euripides. Fragments, some substantial, of most of the other plays also survive. More of his plays have survived than those of Aeschylus and Sophocles together, partly because of the chance preservation of a manuscript that was probably part of a complete collection of his works in alphabetical order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euripides
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January 22, 2008
This, dear friends, is a chilling reminder of why I seldom attend parties.
April 3, 2024
I have quite an extensive list of fictional Greek mythology husbands. It includes Hades, Helios, Cupid, and Achilles, just to name a few. One particular 'guy' surpasses almost all of them.
He enjoys wine, celebrations, strolls along the shore, leopards, and dispatching his female followers to cause chaos in cities that have offended him.
He goes by many names - Dionysus, Bacchus, and even the patron saint of frat boys, rock stars, and married people.
The god of wine, festivity, fertility, and theatre rarely seeks revenge, but when he decides to, he does so in a truly stylish manner.
I hear about disgusting things going on, here in the city - women leaving home to go to silly Bacchic rituals, cavorting there in mountain shadows, with dances honouring some upstart god, this Dionysus, whoever he may be.
SPOILERS:
I thought about which book to revisit, Bacchus or Medea. The choice was easy. There's crazy, and there's my husband left me, so I murdered our children crazy.
Medea:
I prefer to indulge in stories about a hot deity struggling with alcoholism and leading an all-female cult that negatively impacts others JUST BECAUSE.
I have many friends who aren't familiar with Greek mythology, so before diving into the story, let me provide you with a quick background on Dionysus.
Dionysus was born to Semele, a mortal, and Zeus, the ruler of the gods. Semele was seduced by Zeus and ended up pregnant. Hera, Zeus' wife, disguised herself as an elderly woman to gain Semele's trust. Through manipulation, Hera convinced Semele to ask Zeus for a wish. Zeus, bound by his oath on the River Styx, had to comply. Semele's wish was to see Zeus in his full divine form. Despite his shock and sadness, Zeus had to reveal himself. It is essential to honor any commitment made on the River Styx. When a mortal lays eyes on a god in their full splendor, the result is fatal, and Semele was consumed by flames.
Zeus rescued the unborn baby by stitching him inside his thigh (don't ask how; I'm not a doctor). If you find that insane, you better dig into the origins of Athena, the half-sister of Dionysus. Don't worry about Semele - when Dionysus reached adulthood, he ventured into the Underworld and brought her to Mount Olympus. It seems like Hades took the day off or something.
Let's dive into the book now.
Dionysus was chilling, minding his own business:
Suddenly, some of the citizens of Thebes, including his three aunts, began spreading rumors about his mother. They accused Semele of being promiscuous and getting pregnant by a mere mortal. They refused to accept that Dionysus was Zeus' son. Enraged, Dionysus vowed to seek justice for his mother and teach a lesson to those who dared to speak badly of her.
You messed up by angering not just any god but one of the twelve Olympians. Well done, Thebes.
'Tis a majestic thing, the darkness.
Dionysus causes the women of the town to go insane, even his aunts, and guides them to the mountains to participate in 'sacred' rituals. By 'sacred,' I mean some weird shit went down.
That's what you get for talking smack about a deity's mother.
He wants to avenge his mother, prove his divinity to all, and establish a cult. Sounds like a bulletproof plan to me.
Upon discovering the existence of the Dionysus cult, Pentheus, the king of Thebes (and the son of Semele's sister Agave), becomes furious. He prohibits the worship of Dionysus and vows to hunt down and eliminate the enigmatic stranger responsible for seducing his subjects (who is, in fact, Dionysus in disguise).
Dammit, Pentheus, if people want to join a cult, let them! What else is there to do in ancient Greece?
The stranger (Dionysus) is captured and confined. Utilizing his godly abilities, he frees himself and wreaks havoc on his surroundings. Meanwhile, the women of the town, now identifying as the Bacchae, descend into madness. They begin assaulting the villagers. I haven't questioned anything so far, so why begin now? Do what needs to be done, ladies.
Dionysus, in disguise, successfully convinces Pentheus to refrain from resorting to violence against the women. He manipulates and distorts Pentheus' mind. He leads him out of the security of his palace. Pentheus begins to act strangely. I'm going to climb a tree kind of crazy. Dionysus reveals his true identity, and the Bacchae show up to begin killing Pentheus (his mother, Agave, is among the women).
Pentheus loses his head. Literally. Agave returns to the town, holding her son's decapitated head. She proudly presents it to her father, the former king of Thebes. Shock and horror fill his face as he witnesses the gruesome sight. As Agave's madness gradually subsides, she starts to comprehend the magnitude of her actions. She and her sisters are forced into exile. Her parents transform into serpents. Dionysus and his followers embark on their mission to destroy another city. What else is there to do in ancient Greece?
Exclusive clip from Semele, chilling in the afterlife, watching her sister Agave kill her son Pentheus:
I'm sure most of you are familiar with the tale of Theseus leaving Ariadne on a deserted island only to be saved by Dionysus, who later became her husband. I'm currently on a quest to discover a deserted island, intentionally lose my way, and patiently await the arrival of a hot deity who will rescue me.
P.S. There are several translations of this book. Choose wisely.
Playlist:
Living Colour - Cult of Personality
MGMT - Little Dark Age
Billie Eilish - You Should See Me in a Crown
Lana Del Rey - Gods and Monsters
David Kushner - Daylight
The Chainsmokers - Sick Boy
Echos - Saints
Post Malone ft. 21 Savage - Rockstar
He enjoys wine, celebrations, strolls along the shore, leopards, and dispatching his female followers to cause chaos in cities that have offended him.
He goes by many names - Dionysus, Bacchus, and even the patron saint of frat boys, rock stars, and married people.
The god of wine, festivity, fertility, and theatre rarely seeks revenge, but when he decides to, he does so in a truly stylish manner.
I hear about disgusting things going on, here in the city - women leaving home to go to silly Bacchic rituals, cavorting there in mountain shadows, with dances honouring some upstart god, this Dionysus, whoever he may be.
SPOILERS:
I thought about which book to revisit, Bacchus or Medea. The choice was easy. There's crazy, and there's my husband left me, so I murdered our children crazy.
Medea:
I prefer to indulge in stories about a hot deity struggling with alcoholism and leading an all-female cult that negatively impacts others JUST BECAUSE.
I have many friends who aren't familiar with Greek mythology, so before diving into the story, let me provide you with a quick background on Dionysus.
Dionysus was born to Semele, a mortal, and Zeus, the ruler of the gods. Semele was seduced by Zeus and ended up pregnant. Hera, Zeus' wife, disguised herself as an elderly woman to gain Semele's trust. Through manipulation, Hera convinced Semele to ask Zeus for a wish. Zeus, bound by his oath on the River Styx, had to comply. Semele's wish was to see Zeus in his full divine form. Despite his shock and sadness, Zeus had to reveal himself. It is essential to honor any commitment made on the River Styx. When a mortal lays eyes on a god in their full splendor, the result is fatal, and Semele was consumed by flames.
Zeus rescued the unborn baby by stitching him inside his thigh (don't ask how; I'm not a doctor). If you find that insane, you better dig into the origins of Athena, the half-sister of Dionysus. Don't worry about Semele - when Dionysus reached adulthood, he ventured into the Underworld and brought her to Mount Olympus. It seems like Hades took the day off or something.
Let's dive into the book now.
Dionysus was chilling, minding his own business:
Suddenly, some of the citizens of Thebes, including his three aunts, began spreading rumors about his mother. They accused Semele of being promiscuous and getting pregnant by a mere mortal. They refused to accept that Dionysus was Zeus' son. Enraged, Dionysus vowed to seek justice for his mother and teach a lesson to those who dared to speak badly of her.
You messed up by angering not just any god but one of the twelve Olympians. Well done, Thebes.
'Tis a majestic thing, the darkness.
Dionysus causes the women of the town to go insane, even his aunts, and guides them to the mountains to participate in 'sacred' rituals. By 'sacred,' I mean some weird shit went down.
That's what you get for talking smack about a deity's mother.
He wants to avenge his mother, prove his divinity to all, and establish a cult. Sounds like a bulletproof plan to me.
Upon discovering the existence of the Dionysus cult, Pentheus, the king of Thebes (and the son of Semele's sister Agave), becomes furious. He prohibits the worship of Dionysus and vows to hunt down and eliminate the enigmatic stranger responsible for seducing his subjects (who is, in fact, Dionysus in disguise).
Dammit, Pentheus, if people want to join a cult, let them! What else is there to do in ancient Greece?
The stranger (Dionysus) is captured and confined. Utilizing his godly abilities, he frees himself and wreaks havoc on his surroundings. Meanwhile, the women of the town, now identifying as the Bacchae, descend into madness. They begin assaulting the villagers. I haven't questioned anything so far, so why begin now? Do what needs to be done, ladies.
Dionysus, in disguise, successfully convinces Pentheus to refrain from resorting to violence against the women. He manipulates and distorts Pentheus' mind. He leads him out of the security of his palace. Pentheus begins to act strangely. I'm going to climb a tree kind of crazy. Dionysus reveals his true identity, and the Bacchae show up to begin killing Pentheus (his mother, Agave, is among the women).
Pentheus loses his head. Literally. Agave returns to the town, holding her son's decapitated head. She proudly presents it to her father, the former king of Thebes. Shock and horror fill his face as he witnesses the gruesome sight. As Agave's madness gradually subsides, she starts to comprehend the magnitude of her actions. She and her sisters are forced into exile. Her parents transform into serpents. Dionysus and his followers embark on their mission to destroy another city. What else is there to do in ancient Greece?
Exclusive clip from Semele, chilling in the afterlife, watching her sister Agave kill her son Pentheus:
I'm sure most of you are familiar with the tale of Theseus leaving Ariadne on a deserted island only to be saved by Dionysus, who later became her husband. I'm currently on a quest to discover a deserted island, intentionally lose my way, and patiently await the arrival of a hot deity who will rescue me.
P.S. There are several translations of this book. Choose wisely.
Playlist:
Living Colour - Cult of Personality
MGMT - Little Dark Age
Billie Eilish - You Should See Me in a Crown
Lana Del Rey - Gods and Monsters
David Kushner - Daylight
The Chainsmokers - Sick Boy
Echos - Saints
Post Malone ft. 21 Savage - Rockstar
November 25, 2018
Dionysus is my favourite ancient Greek god. Why? Because he is the coolest, simple as.
“He is life's liberating force.
He is release of limbs and communion through dance.
He is laughter, and music in flutes.
He is repose from all cares -- he is sleep!"
- The Young Bacchus by Caravaggio, 1595.
Not only is he the god of theatre (a huge passion of mine) but he is also the god of wine, festivals, ecstasy and madness. Every set of self-respecting Gods needs one like him on the team. In a way he represents excess, the excess of human emotion and passion. Every so often we all need a good binge of some sort and any god that denies our needs is a very poor god. Dionysus gets it. He understands.
And he is capable of great good and filling the needs of his subjects, but his whims can easily slip into darkness. In this play he presents himself in a clam collective manner; he does not really represent the aspects of human nature he is god of: he merely facilitates them. He gives man the opportunity to go too far; it’s up to him if he takes it and falls into complete intoxication. And this bespeaks his enthralling power. He is not controlling and does not tamper with free-will, if his subjects worship him to heavily then it is of their own accord.
The Dionysian cult Euripides creates here is one completely necessary in the society of Ancient Greece. He is the solution for the ongoing battle between freedom and restraint. He suggests that the irrational and the indulgent are both necessary for society to function and develop. Any society that denies these things will fall apart in misery. So Dionysus is an important force, but one that should be taken is small measures.
So this is a good play, and it’s completely character driven and loaded with this message (supposedly as a learning tool.) It’s real fun to read.
“He is life's liberating force.
He is release of limbs and communion through dance.
He is laughter, and music in flutes.
He is repose from all cares -- he is sleep!"
- The Young Bacchus by Caravaggio, 1595.
Not only is he the god of theatre (a huge passion of mine) but he is also the god of wine, festivals, ecstasy and madness. Every set of self-respecting Gods needs one like him on the team. In a way he represents excess, the excess of human emotion and passion. Every so often we all need a good binge of some sort and any god that denies our needs is a very poor god. Dionysus gets it. He understands.
And he is capable of great good and filling the needs of his subjects, but his whims can easily slip into darkness. In this play he presents himself in a clam collective manner; he does not really represent the aspects of human nature he is god of: he merely facilitates them. He gives man the opportunity to go too far; it’s up to him if he takes it and falls into complete intoxication. And this bespeaks his enthralling power. He is not controlling and does not tamper with free-will, if his subjects worship him to heavily then it is of their own accord.
The Dionysian cult Euripides creates here is one completely necessary in the society of Ancient Greece. He is the solution for the ongoing battle between freedom and restraint. He suggests that the irrational and the indulgent are both necessary for society to function and develop. Any society that denies these things will fall apart in misery. So Dionysus is an important force, but one that should be taken is small measures.
So this is a good play, and it’s completely character driven and loaded with this message (supposedly as a learning tool.) It’s real fun to read.
November 13, 2015
Lately, I’ve been reading a lot of Greek tragedy. But when I attempt reviews, my tongue turns to ashes in my mouth. It’s not that they’re too old (I’ve reviewed older books), nor because they’re so foundational (I’ve reviewed equally fundamental books). It’s because I strongly suspect that I just don’t get it. It strikes me that the Greek tragedians were trying to accomplish something essentially different from what I’ve come to expect from literature.
Greek tragedy has not even the slightest element of suspense. When you read one of Shakespeare’s tragedies, you know that it will end badly for the protagonist (and at least a few other people)—otherwise it wouldn’t be a tragedy. But there always seems to be a glimmer of hope, a chance that it could’ve turned out differently. The tragic outcome hinges on the character of the tragic hero; the final result is tragic because of that tantalizing “what if?” which lingers in the air as the curtain falls.
But in the plays of the Greek tragedians, the story is a fait accompli. Everything happens because of the will of the gods, or the mysterious hand of fate. Every character inexorably fulfills their destiny. The only thing they can do, it seems, is to sing about how awful their situation is. Thus we get line after line of the chorus—interrupting the action like a song in a musical, telling the audience what they already know in sing-song verse.
This isn't the fault of the playwrights. Because hardly anybody can read Ancient Greek nowadays, we’re forced to read the plays in translation; and poetry is always sub par in translation. Also, these chorus interludes actually did have music when they were performed; so it’s a bit unfair to judge them merely as poetry. (Imagine if archaeologists dug up a book of Beatles lyrics 2,000 years from now. They would have no idea why the Beatles were such a hit.)
Nietzsche thought this aspect of Greek tragedy was the root of its power. In his first published work, The Birth of Tragedy, Nietzsche spills much ink in describing his love for the unbridled spirit of life in the music of the Greek tragic chorus. For Nietzsche, the very fact that the music wasn’t ‘realistic’—that it didn’t attempt to portray the facts of life—is what gave it its tremendous power. This is why Nietzsche thought that Euripides was decadent.
Euripides is distinguished from Aeschylus and Sophocles precisely for his realism. His plays actually do have that element of unpredictability we’ve come to expect from modern tragedy. We don’t feel that the action is foreordained; that the people are merely acting out the decree of Fate. When his characters give monologues, the poetry doesn’t seem stylized or wooden—like old song-lyrics do. Rather, Euripides seeks to portray the psychology of his protagonists as if they were real people; the final result is more like reading someone's thoughts than reading sing-song poetry.
This is not to say that he didn’t include mythological or fantastic elements. Take this play. For a completely illogical reason, the god Dionysus decides to wreak havoc in Thebes. He doesn’t do it for the sake of justice; nor to accomplish some goal. He does it, more or less, on a whim. This is what makes the action of the play so shocking. It’s as if the reader has been dropped in via helicopter down on some battlefield, and is forced to watch the senseless violence.
Nietzsche admired, almost worshiped, the Dionysian impulse—the mad impulse to riot, to dance, to sing, to live. He found in the character of Dionysus the solution to everything wrong with Christian morality and the scientific mentality. Nietzsche believed that the drive to divide up the world into good and evil, and to value the literal truth above figurative myth, destroys man’s ability to reach his highest potential. But Euripides sees something much darker and devious in the character of Dionysus. Euripides sees that, once morality and truth are abandoned, one is left only with naked power. And naked power can be used just as easily for wanton destruction as for beneficent creation.
So it’s hard for me to agree with Nietzsche and consider Euripides as a decadent playwright. Every one of his plays I’ve so far read has been a dramatic masterpiece; and when you think about them, there’s usually an intriguing lesson to be learned, a thought to be pondered. Aeschylus and Sophocles remain partially veiled in translation; their music, lost to time. But now, I can at least say I’ve found one Greek playwright I ‘get’.
Greek tragedy has not even the slightest element of suspense. When you read one of Shakespeare’s tragedies, you know that it will end badly for the protagonist (and at least a few other people)—otherwise it wouldn’t be a tragedy. But there always seems to be a glimmer of hope, a chance that it could’ve turned out differently. The tragic outcome hinges on the character of the tragic hero; the final result is tragic because of that tantalizing “what if?” which lingers in the air as the curtain falls.
But in the plays of the Greek tragedians, the story is a fait accompli. Everything happens because of the will of the gods, or the mysterious hand of fate. Every character inexorably fulfills their destiny. The only thing they can do, it seems, is to sing about how awful their situation is. Thus we get line after line of the chorus—interrupting the action like a song in a musical, telling the audience what they already know in sing-song verse.
This isn't the fault of the playwrights. Because hardly anybody can read Ancient Greek nowadays, we’re forced to read the plays in translation; and poetry is always sub par in translation. Also, these chorus interludes actually did have music when they were performed; so it’s a bit unfair to judge them merely as poetry. (Imagine if archaeologists dug up a book of Beatles lyrics 2,000 years from now. They would have no idea why the Beatles were such a hit.)
Nietzsche thought this aspect of Greek tragedy was the root of its power. In his first published work, The Birth of Tragedy, Nietzsche spills much ink in describing his love for the unbridled spirit of life in the music of the Greek tragic chorus. For Nietzsche, the very fact that the music wasn’t ‘realistic’—that it didn’t attempt to portray the facts of life—is what gave it its tremendous power. This is why Nietzsche thought that Euripides was decadent.
Euripides is distinguished from Aeschylus and Sophocles precisely for his realism. His plays actually do have that element of unpredictability we’ve come to expect from modern tragedy. We don’t feel that the action is foreordained; that the people are merely acting out the decree of Fate. When his characters give monologues, the poetry doesn’t seem stylized or wooden—like old song-lyrics do. Rather, Euripides seeks to portray the psychology of his protagonists as if they were real people; the final result is more like reading someone's thoughts than reading sing-song poetry.
This is not to say that he didn’t include mythological or fantastic elements. Take this play. For a completely illogical reason, the god Dionysus decides to wreak havoc in Thebes. He doesn’t do it for the sake of justice; nor to accomplish some goal. He does it, more or less, on a whim. This is what makes the action of the play so shocking. It’s as if the reader has been dropped in via helicopter down on some battlefield, and is forced to watch the senseless violence.
Nietzsche admired, almost worshiped, the Dionysian impulse—the mad impulse to riot, to dance, to sing, to live. He found in the character of Dionysus the solution to everything wrong with Christian morality and the scientific mentality. Nietzsche believed that the drive to divide up the world into good and evil, and to value the literal truth above figurative myth, destroys man’s ability to reach his highest potential. But Euripides sees something much darker and devious in the character of Dionysus. Euripides sees that, once morality and truth are abandoned, one is left only with naked power. And naked power can be used just as easily for wanton destruction as for beneficent creation.
So it’s hard for me to agree with Nietzsche and consider Euripides as a decadent playwright. Every one of his plays I’ve so far read has been a dramatic masterpiece; and when you think about them, there’s usually an intriguing lesson to be learned, a thought to be pondered. Aeschylus and Sophocles remain partially veiled in translation; their music, lost to time. But now, I can at least say I’ve found one Greek playwright I ‘get’.
April 3, 2024
In disguise, Dionysus returns to the land of his birth, Thebes. He is angry at the women of Thebes for denying him his rights of worship and sends them all mad. The women become his Bacchantes and run into the forest to revel in Dionysus's ownership. They become drunk with wine and dance in wild displays of Dionysian rituals. He is especially angry with the family of Cadmus and seeks their destruction.
The chaste and prudish King of Thebes, Pentheus, is furious when he returns to discover that the women, including his mother, have gone into the forest. His grandfather, Cadmus, and the seer, Tiresias, also decide to join the women in the woods, wisely realizing the danger of going against the gods' wishes.
Pentheus orders the destruction of Tiresias' shrine to restore order, and he imprisons Dionysus in disguise. The women, however, have not been able to overcome. So, after Dionysus regains his freedom, God convinces Pentheus to dress as a woman and enter the forest as one of the Bacchantes to go among them in disguise, find his mother, and bring her back to the city.
After dressing as one of the female Bacchantes, Pentheus enters the forest and finds the women's dwelling place. However, Dionysus achieves his ultimate revenge by driving the women into their madness to think that Pentheus is a wild beast. At Pentheus' mother's insistence, the women fall upon him and tear him to pieces. Agave, his mother, holds Pentheus' head in her hands, imagining it as a wild beast, and Dionysus' revenge is complete.
After the horrible act, Dionysus releases the women from their madness, and Agave realizes she has destroyed her son. Dionysus reveals himself as the God and tells the former Bacchantes that he had Pentheus killed because he refused to honor and worship him and thus put himself against the gods' will.
Agave and Cadmus protest the dreadful punishment bestowed on Pentheus and Cadmus' family, who will be exiled.
The chaste and prudish King of Thebes, Pentheus, is furious when he returns to discover that the women, including his mother, have gone into the forest. His grandfather, Cadmus, and the seer, Tiresias, also decide to join the women in the woods, wisely realizing the danger of going against the gods' wishes.
Pentheus orders the destruction of Tiresias' shrine to restore order, and he imprisons Dionysus in disguise. The women, however, have not been able to overcome. So, after Dionysus regains his freedom, God convinces Pentheus to dress as a woman and enter the forest as one of the Bacchantes to go among them in disguise, find his mother, and bring her back to the city.
After dressing as one of the female Bacchantes, Pentheus enters the forest and finds the women's dwelling place. However, Dionysus achieves his ultimate revenge by driving the women into their madness to think that Pentheus is a wild beast. At Pentheus' mother's insistence, the women fall upon him and tear him to pieces. Agave, his mother, holds Pentheus' head in her hands, imagining it as a wild beast, and Dionysus' revenge is complete.
After the horrible act, Dionysus releases the women from their madness, and Agave realizes she has destroyed her son. Dionysus reveals himself as the God and tells the former Bacchantes that he had Pentheus killed because he refused to honor and worship him and thus put himself against the gods' will.
Agave and Cadmus protest the dreadful punishment bestowed on Pentheus and Cadmus' family, who will be exiled.
November 17, 2021
“Your name means grief you are suited for it”
Dionysus remains my favorite of the pantheon
Dionysus remains my favorite of the pantheon
November 1, 2017
The Ancient Greeks had raves
2 May 2013
We actually don't have a complete copy of this play though the edition that I read attempts to reconstruct the missing sections (which is mostly at the end) because, as they say, this is a popular play that is regularly performed. This in itself is a strange statement since I have never seen it performed (in fact I have only ever seen one Greek play performed, and that was Oedipus Tyrannous and that was by an amateur theatre group). Mind you, Greek plays tend to be short, meaning that they last generally only as long as about a third of a Shakespeare play (though when they were performed in ancient times, it would usually be along with three others plays).
The Bacchae is about change and about the resistance to change and how our attempts to resist change is generally futile. Mind you it is a tragedy and it does have a pretty bloody ending (in that a number of the main characters end up dead, though the progenitor of change, Dionysus, doesn't, but then again he is a god). There are two things that do strike me about this play, the first being how there are reflections of Christianity in it, particularly early Christianity, and the second involves reflections of the modern rave culture. However, before I go into exploring those two aspects of the play I should give a bit of a background so you may understand where I am coming from.
The cult of Dionysus was a rather new cult to appear in Ancient Greece, as far as the gods are concerned, and he was not one of the traditional gods of the pantheon. He apparently was introduced through migrations from the north, particularly through Thrace. The cult itself was a mystery cult, meaning that the rituals and celebrations tended to be conducted behind closed doors (and this comes out in the Bacchae, particularly since the main worshippers were women). The celebrations (as also comes out in the Bacchae) generally involved drunken revelries out in the bush.
The Bacchae itself is set in the mythical period of Ancient Greece in the city of Thebes. The king of Thebes, Penthius, is concerned about this new cult that has appeared that is seducing all of the women into joining. As such he goes out of his way to attempt to put an end to it, including arresting Dionysus. It is interesting that Dionysus, unlike the gods in many of the other Greek plays, has a major role. Most of the gods in Greek drama tend to only come in at the beginning or the end, either to provide an introduction, or to intervene in a hopeless situation. However Dionysus is one of the major characters in this play.
Anyway Dionysius, in an attempt to defend his cult (and one wonders if his portrayal here is similar to the charismatic cult leaders that we have seen throughout history) convinces Pentheus to spy on one of the celebrations. However, in a drunken haze, the women in the midst of their celebration mistake Pentheus for an mountain goat, capture him, and tear him to pieces. However, the women do not get away scot free as they are exiled for, well, murder, despite their arguments that they were not in control of their faculties at the time.
The idea of the new cult is something that societies have faced throughout time, and it goes to show that the Roman persecution of Christianity is something that is not limited to that particular religion at that particular time. It is interesting to note that in the play Pentheus does not believe that Dionysus is a god, despite certain actions (such as blowing up his palace) that suggest otherwise. Further, the ignorance of the bacchic rites is also similar to Roman ignorance of certain Christian rites, such as the Lord's Supper.
Some have even suggested that Dionysus is a Christ figure, and the introduction to the play even has some similarities with the virgin birth. For instance, Dionysus is born of a woman but has Zeus as his father (though unlike Christianity, where the term 'conceived of the Holy Spirit' does not indicate a sexual union between God and Mary, where it is clear from this play that there was a sexual union between Zeus and Dionysus' mother, though this can be put down to our failure to understand, or accept, the possibility that conception can occur outside of sexual union, though these days this is changing). More interesting is that Dionysus mother is accused of extra-marital sex, which Mary also faced. Another interesting note is that after Dionysus' birth, Zeus hides him to protect him from being killed by a jealous Hera, which has reflections in the Christ story in that Jesus was spirited off to Egypt to protect himself from the murderous rampages of a jealous king.
Some might suggest that I am drawing some rather tenuous examples here, but I would argue otherwise. One of the reasons is generally because of the fear of Christians to look outside the box. We are more than happy to accept the Bible, but to consider anything outside of that, particularly with regards to pagan representations (or could they be prophecies) of the Christ, can open up to many probabilities. I guess it has to do with the conservative bent that most Christians have, in that what has been done over hundreds of years has proven itself and anything that is new can be dangerous or even destructive. However, remember what Paul writes in the book of Thessalonians: test everything, hold onto what is good, and reject what is bad. He did not say 'reject everything' but to 'test everything' which includes age old traditions.
I want to finish off with a comment on the modern rave scene. Okay, the idea of the outdoor rave out in the bush rose out of Britian where, in an attempt to stamp out drug use, the government made raves themselves illegal. However, it could also be suggested that the reason the mystery cults of ancient Greece met out in the bush was because they were also illegal. However (particularly since I have been to raves myself) there is something almost bacchic about the rave. The idea of taking drugs to induce feelings of pleasure, as well as the lights and the sounds adding to that, reflects what was occurring here in the Bacchae. In many cases, the rituals were sensual experiments in pleasure, which is similar to what happens at a rave. This also goes to show that the rave is not something new, but something that has been going on for centuries.
2 May 2013
We actually don't have a complete copy of this play though the edition that I read attempts to reconstruct the missing sections (which is mostly at the end) because, as they say, this is a popular play that is regularly performed. This in itself is a strange statement since I have never seen it performed (in fact I have only ever seen one Greek play performed, and that was Oedipus Tyrannous and that was by an amateur theatre group). Mind you, Greek plays tend to be short, meaning that they last generally only as long as about a third of a Shakespeare play (though when they were performed in ancient times, it would usually be along with three others plays).
The Bacchae is about change and about the resistance to change and how our attempts to resist change is generally futile. Mind you it is a tragedy and it does have a pretty bloody ending (in that a number of the main characters end up dead, though the progenitor of change, Dionysus, doesn't, but then again he is a god). There are two things that do strike me about this play, the first being how there are reflections of Christianity in it, particularly early Christianity, and the second involves reflections of the modern rave culture. However, before I go into exploring those two aspects of the play I should give a bit of a background so you may understand where I am coming from.
The cult of Dionysus was a rather new cult to appear in Ancient Greece, as far as the gods are concerned, and he was not one of the traditional gods of the pantheon. He apparently was introduced through migrations from the north, particularly through Thrace. The cult itself was a mystery cult, meaning that the rituals and celebrations tended to be conducted behind closed doors (and this comes out in the Bacchae, particularly since the main worshippers were women). The celebrations (as also comes out in the Bacchae) generally involved drunken revelries out in the bush.
The Bacchae itself is set in the mythical period of Ancient Greece in the city of Thebes. The king of Thebes, Penthius, is concerned about this new cult that has appeared that is seducing all of the women into joining. As such he goes out of his way to attempt to put an end to it, including arresting Dionysus. It is interesting that Dionysus, unlike the gods in many of the other Greek plays, has a major role. Most of the gods in Greek drama tend to only come in at the beginning or the end, either to provide an introduction, or to intervene in a hopeless situation. However Dionysus is one of the major characters in this play.
Anyway Dionysius, in an attempt to defend his cult (and one wonders if his portrayal here is similar to the charismatic cult leaders that we have seen throughout history) convinces Pentheus to spy on one of the celebrations. However, in a drunken haze, the women in the midst of their celebration mistake Pentheus for an mountain goat, capture him, and tear him to pieces. However, the women do not get away scot free as they are exiled for, well, murder, despite their arguments that they were not in control of their faculties at the time.
The idea of the new cult is something that societies have faced throughout time, and it goes to show that the Roman persecution of Christianity is something that is not limited to that particular religion at that particular time. It is interesting to note that in the play Pentheus does not believe that Dionysus is a god, despite certain actions (such as blowing up his palace) that suggest otherwise. Further, the ignorance of the bacchic rites is also similar to Roman ignorance of certain Christian rites, such as the Lord's Supper.
Some have even suggested that Dionysus is a Christ figure, and the introduction to the play even has some similarities with the virgin birth. For instance, Dionysus is born of a woman but has Zeus as his father (though unlike Christianity, where the term 'conceived of the Holy Spirit' does not indicate a sexual union between God and Mary, where it is clear from this play that there was a sexual union between Zeus and Dionysus' mother, though this can be put down to our failure to understand, or accept, the possibility that conception can occur outside of sexual union, though these days this is changing). More interesting is that Dionysus mother is accused of extra-marital sex, which Mary also faced. Another interesting note is that after Dionysus' birth, Zeus hides him to protect him from being killed by a jealous Hera, which has reflections in the Christ story in that Jesus was spirited off to Egypt to protect himself from the murderous rampages of a jealous king.
Some might suggest that I am drawing some rather tenuous examples here, but I would argue otherwise. One of the reasons is generally because of the fear of Christians to look outside the box. We are more than happy to accept the Bible, but to consider anything outside of that, particularly with regards to pagan representations (or could they be prophecies) of the Christ, can open up to many probabilities. I guess it has to do with the conservative bent that most Christians have, in that what has been done over hundreds of years has proven itself and anything that is new can be dangerous or even destructive. However, remember what Paul writes in the book of Thessalonians: test everything, hold onto what is good, and reject what is bad. He did not say 'reject everything' but to 'test everything' which includes age old traditions.
I want to finish off with a comment on the modern rave scene. Okay, the idea of the outdoor rave out in the bush rose out of Britian where, in an attempt to stamp out drug use, the government made raves themselves illegal. However, it could also be suggested that the reason the mystery cults of ancient Greece met out in the bush was because they were also illegal. However (particularly since I have been to raves myself) there is something almost bacchic about the rave. The idea of taking drugs to induce feelings of pleasure, as well as the lights and the sounds adding to that, reflects what was occurring here in the Bacchae. In many cases, the rituals were sensual experiments in pleasure, which is similar to what happens at a rave. This also goes to show that the rave is not something new, but something that has been going on for centuries.
February 28, 2022
Dos "três grandes" da tragédia grega, faltava-me ler o "mái novo", Eurípedes.😁
Foi através desta sua tragédia "As Bacantes", considerada por muitos a sua obra prima, que finalmente me resolvi a descobri-lo.
Que tragédia forte esta! Proporcionou-me emoções que estiveram muito perto das que senti ao ler Édipo Rei de Sófocles. Apesar de não destronar esse meu favorito de sempre, foi sem dúvida uma experiência de leitura também ela inesquecível!
Será que a vingança de Dioniso, filho de Zeus e da mortal Sémele, se abaterá sobre a casa de Cadmo, sua linhagem mortal na terra?
Ou será que Penteu, a quem Cadmo agora na velhice entregou o governo de Tebas, deixará de negar que Dioniso é um deus e conceder-lhe-á o culto e honras que lhe são devidas? Dioniso é mesmo um deus ou Sémele terá realmente mentido ao afirmar a sua gravidez como divina?...
Encontrarão nesta pequena tragédia um embate bem desequilibrado entre as forças terrenas e divinas, bem retorcida e com muitos apontamentos retorcidos, cruéis e macabros!
Sinto como sempre um privilégio que esta tragédia tenha chegado aos nossos dias, mas ao mesmo tempo pena que não tenha chegado a tetralogia completa, para entender melhor o lugar desta no todo. No entanto parece que outra das tragédias que compunham a obra original também chegou aos nossos dias: "Ifigénia em Àulis" que por sorte já tenho também na estante. No que toca a tragédias gregas será essa a minha leitura seguinte 😍
Foi através desta sua tragédia "As Bacantes", considerada por muitos a sua obra prima, que finalmente me resolvi a descobri-lo.
Que tragédia forte esta! Proporcionou-me emoções que estiveram muito perto das que senti ao ler Édipo Rei de Sófocles. Apesar de não destronar esse meu favorito de sempre, foi sem dúvida uma experiência de leitura também ela inesquecível!
Será que a vingança de Dioniso, filho de Zeus e da mortal Sémele, se abaterá sobre a casa de Cadmo, sua linhagem mortal na terra?
Ou será que Penteu, a quem Cadmo agora na velhice entregou o governo de Tebas, deixará de negar que Dioniso é um deus e conceder-lhe-á o culto e honras que lhe são devidas? Dioniso é mesmo um deus ou Sémele terá realmente mentido ao afirmar a sua gravidez como divina?...
Encontrarão nesta pequena tragédia um embate bem desequilibrado entre as forças terrenas e divinas, bem retorcida e com muitos apontamentos retorcidos, cruéis e macabros!
Sinto como sempre um privilégio que esta tragédia tenha chegado aos nossos dias, mas ao mesmo tempo pena que não tenha chegado a tetralogia completa, para entender melhor o lugar desta no todo. No entanto parece que outra das tragédias que compunham a obra original também chegou aos nossos dias: "Ifigénia em Àulis" que por sorte já tenho também na estante. No que toca a tragédias gregas será essa a minha leitura seguinte 😍
Want to read
November 4, 2011....no, I don't know why Elvis's mugshot is on the cover either.
January 22, 2019
O que é a sabedoria? Ou que dádiva mais bela
dos deuses, aos olhos dos homens,
do que manter a mão segura
sobre a cabeça do inimigo?
... quando o inimigo é poderoso, sabedoria será "dançar com as Bacantes" para não se perder a cabeça. Como a perdeu Penteu, cuja tragédia é das mais terríveis da Mitologia Grega.
(Morte de Penteu - Fresco da Casa dos Vettii, em Pompeia)
Penteu, rei de Tebas e neto de Cadmo e Harmonia, quando Tirésias o avisa da chegada de um deus - que será a sua destruição caso não se submeta ao novo culto - escarnece do vidente. Penteu não aceita que o seu povo idolatre um rapaz efeminado que diz ser filho de Zeus. Todos o tentam chamar à razão, mas Penteu não cede e manda prender Diónisos. Iludido pelo deus, vai ao local de culto onde as Bacantes, enfeitiçadas, o despedaçam. É Agave, a mãe de Penteu, que lhe arranca a cabeça exibindo-a, triunfante, julgando tratar-se de um leão.
Se tivésseis sabido ter senso, o que não quisestes, poderíeis ser felizes, tendo por aliado o filho de Zeus.
dos deuses, aos olhos dos homens,
do que manter a mão segura
sobre a cabeça do inimigo?
... quando o inimigo é poderoso, sabedoria será "dançar com as Bacantes" para não se perder a cabeça. Como a perdeu Penteu, cuja tragédia é das mais terríveis da Mitologia Grega.
(Morte de Penteu - Fresco da Casa dos Vettii, em Pompeia)
Penteu, rei de Tebas e neto de Cadmo e Harmonia, quando Tirésias o avisa da chegada de um deus - que será a sua destruição caso não se submeta ao novo culto - escarnece do vidente. Penteu não aceita que o seu povo idolatre um rapaz efeminado que diz ser filho de Zeus. Todos o tentam chamar à razão, mas Penteu não cede e manda prender Diónisos. Iludido pelo deus, vai ao local de culto onde as Bacantes, enfeitiçadas, o despedaçam. É Agave, a mãe de Penteu, que lhe arranca a cabeça exibindo-a, triunfante, julgando tratar-se de um leão.
Se tivésseis sabido ter senso, o que não quisestes, poderíeis ser felizes, tendo por aliado o filho de Zeus.
June 22, 2019
Euripides & Anne Carson. Exquisite!
October 30, 2021
113th book of 2021.
CADMUS
And whose head do you hold in your hands?
AGAVE (averting her eyes)
A lion's . . . The huntresses . . . They said . . .
CADMUS
Look at it properly. Just a quick glance.
AGAVE
What is it? What am I holding in my hands?
CADMUS
Look closely now. Be sure.
AGAVE
Ah! No! No! I see the greatest sorrow.
CADMUS
Does it still look like a lion?
AGAVE
No! No. It is . . . Oh gods! It is Pentheus's head I hold.
CADMUS
Now you see who I was mourning.
AGAVE
Who killed him? How did he come to be in my hands?
CADMUS
This is too hard, this truth. It took so long to come to this.
AGAVE
Tell me! Please! My heart beats with terror.
CADMUS
You killed him. You and yours sisters.
AGAVE
Where did it happen? Here, at home? Where?
CADMUS
On Cithaeron, where the dogs tore Actaeon apart.
AGAVE
Cithaeron? But why was Pentheus there?
CADMUS
He went to mock the gods, and your rituals.
AGAVE
But we - why were we there?
CADMUS
You were out of your wits.
The whole city was possessed by Bacchus.
AGAVE
I see. Dionysus has destroyed us all.
CADMUS
You enraged him. You denied him as a god.
AGAVE
And where, Father, is the rest of my poor son?
CADMUS (pointing to the stretcher)
Here. I found all I could.
AGAVE
Is he complete, and recently arranged?
But why should Pentheus suffer for my crime?
CADMUS
Like you, he refused the god.
And so the god ruined us all:
you, your sisters, and this boy.
This house is destroyed as well, and me with it.
I have no male heirs, and now I have lived to see
the fruit of your womb so shamefully destroyed.
(addressing the corpse) It was through you, my boy,
that this house regained its sight.
It was you, my daughter's son,
who held the palace together and the citizens in line.
It was you who would punish anyone who slighted me.
But now I shall be dishonoured,
an outcast from my own home.
I, Cadmus the great, who sowed the Theban race
and reaped that glorious harvest.
Dearest of men - for even in death
I count you as the man I love the best -
no more will you stroke my beard, child,
no more will you hug me, call me 'Grandfather' or say:
'Has anyone wronged you or shown you disrespect?
Has anyone disturbed or hurt you?
Tell me, Grandfather, and I will punish them.'
But now there is grief for me and a shroud for you,
and pity for your mother and her sisters.
If anyone still disputes the power of heaven,
let them look at this boy's death
and they will see that the gods live.
CADMUS
And whose head do you hold in your hands?
AGAVE (averting her eyes)
A lion's . . . The huntresses . . . They said . . .
CADMUS
Look at it properly. Just a quick glance.
AGAVE
What is it? What am I holding in my hands?
CADMUS
Look closely now. Be sure.
AGAVE
Ah! No! No! I see the greatest sorrow.
CADMUS
Does it still look like a lion?
AGAVE
No! No. It is . . . Oh gods! It is Pentheus's head I hold.
CADMUS
Now you see who I was mourning.
AGAVE
Who killed him? How did he come to be in my hands?
CADMUS
This is too hard, this truth. It took so long to come to this.
AGAVE
Tell me! Please! My heart beats with terror.
CADMUS
You killed him. You and yours sisters.
AGAVE
Where did it happen? Here, at home? Where?
CADMUS
On Cithaeron, where the dogs tore Actaeon apart.
AGAVE
Cithaeron? But why was Pentheus there?
CADMUS
He went to mock the gods, and your rituals.
AGAVE
But we - why were we there?
CADMUS
You were out of your wits.
The whole city was possessed by Bacchus.
AGAVE
I see. Dionysus has destroyed us all.
CADMUS
You enraged him. You denied him as a god.
AGAVE
And where, Father, is the rest of my poor son?
CADMUS (pointing to the stretcher)
Here. I found all I could.
AGAVE
Is he complete, and recently arranged?
But why should Pentheus suffer for my crime?
CADMUS
Like you, he refused the god.
And so the god ruined us all:
you, your sisters, and this boy.
This house is destroyed as well, and me with it.
I have no male heirs, and now I have lived to see
the fruit of your womb so shamefully destroyed.
(addressing the corpse) It was through you, my boy,
that this house regained its sight.
It was you, my daughter's son,
who held the palace together and the citizens in line.
It was you who would punish anyone who slighted me.
But now I shall be dishonoured,
an outcast from my own home.
I, Cadmus the great, who sowed the Theban race
and reaped that glorious harvest.
Dearest of men - for even in death
I count you as the man I love the best -
no more will you stroke my beard, child,
no more will you hug me, call me 'Grandfather' or say:
'Has anyone wronged you or shown you disrespect?
Has anyone disturbed or hurt you?
Tell me, Grandfather, and I will punish them.'
But now there is grief for me and a shroud for you,
and pity for your mother and her sisters.
If anyone still disputes the power of heaven,
let them look at this boy's death
and they will see that the gods live.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
July 30, 2019
Bu sefer kolaya kaçıyorum ve yorum yapmayıp kitaptan benim için kitabın özeti olan iki alıntı yapmay�� tercih ediyorum.
"İnsani tutkular tanrılara yakışmaz" (s.62).
"Tanrılar insanların bahtında
türlü türlü gösterirler kudretlerini.
Türlü hallere sokarlar bizi hiç beklenmedik,
umduğumuz şeyler olmaz
ummadığımız hallere getirirler bizi.
İşte bu dram da böyle bitti" (s.64).
"İnsani tutkular tanrılara yakışmaz" (s.62).
"Tanrılar insanların bahtında
türlü türlü gösterirler kudretlerini.
Türlü hallere sokarlar bizi hiç beklenmedik,
umduğumuz şeyler olmaz
ummadığımız hallere getirirler bizi.
İşte bu dram da böyle bitti" (s.64).
June 26, 2016
Όσους κολακευτικούς χαρακτηρισμούς κι αν χρησιμοποιήσω,θα είναι λίγοι.Λίγα θεατρικά έργα με άγγιξαν όσο αυτό-διαβάστε το και θα με θυμηθείτε!
Read
April 18, 2022"Quando falta o bom-senso ao homem audaz e simultaneamente poderoso e hábil na palavra, ele torna-se um cidadão perigoso."
28
Com obras destas, fica difícil escolher um tragediógrafo de eleição. Os três grandes poetas gregos autores de tragédias (Ésquilo, Sófocles, Eurípides) competem belamente, não haja dúvida. Já quase desisto da insistência de que o primeiro deles é realmente o melhor... quase.
Agora a parte gira.
De três anos à boleia em Clássicas, o latim não resistiu lá muito bem, mas isto, curiosamente, ficou:
As Grandes Dionísias, celebravam-se no início da primavera e duravam vários dias durante os quais o público participava em sacrifícios, cerimónias cívicas (como homenagens fúnebres, militares etc.) e, claro, assistia à representação teatral.
Um dia estava reservado à comédia e três à tragédia (com a representação de 3 tragédias + 1 drama satírico).
E quem era este público?
Certamente homens (embora as mulheres, garantidamente, participassem nos primeiros dias do festival para as procissões e sacrifícios) e certamente aliados da Liga de Delos (uma das coligações entre cidades aliadas durante a guerra aos persas - a par da Liga do Peloponeso -, liderada por Atenas. Estas ligas representavam o expoente máximo da democracia grega - gorado pela guerra, claro, do Peloponeso.
De entre as representações que aí tomavam lugar, nas Dionísias, sabemos hoje, ironicamente, que muito poucas obedeciam à temática dionisíaca. Isto talvez se explique - entre várias outras razões de origem esotérica - pelo facto do dionisismo ser um culto flagrantemente feminino. Ora pois, a cultura helénica assentava fortemente na fórmula do patriarcado, logo, em valores misóginos.*
Em As Bacantes, Eurípides - frequente concorrente no festival - retoma a tragédia mítica e traz-nos um rei (Penteu) derrotado pela força do deus (Baco), e um traçado geral da forma como o homem soberano encara a postura, o papel e o "potencial" da mulher ateniense (diga-se desde já que, quando as mulheres são retratadas como Ménades - sacerdotisas bárbaras de Baco - a despedaçar homens e animais em êxtases orgiásticos, o suposto potencial não é propriamente simpático...).
À parte isso, não deixa de ser curiosa a escolha de Eurípides por várias outras razões, entre elas a forma como escolhe apresentar os deuses e os homens - neste caso, o deus e o homem:
Desde logo, porque, para um grego, existem três categorias de seres vivos:
Animais;
Humanos;
Mortais.
Estes últimos obedecem, por ordem, a estas qualidades:
Racional e mortal;
Racional e imortal.
Espantosamente, nem Penteu nem Baco parecem honrar o primeiro desses atributos. Falta a ambos, desde logo, aquilo a que um ateniense chamaria de aretê (virtude essencial para a formação de um herói, por exemplo) e que consistia no respeito pelos valores morais da civilização. Neste caso, e para Penteu, o respeito pelos deuses; para Baco, o respeito pelo inimigo.
Assim, e porque a ambos manca essa qualidade, o rei desrespeita o deus e o deus vinga-se no rei (e na família toda que isto é uma tragédia que se preza!)
Ficam os reis desde já avisados, e contra isto pouco há a dizer:
"Infinitas são as manifestações da vontade divina; infinitos os acontecimentos que os deuses desencadeiam contra o que tinhamos previsto. Os que esperamos, esses não se realizam, os que não esperamos, um deus lhes abre o caminho."
91
Esta peça fez Eurípides subir na minha consideração ao ponto de ficar envergonhada pelas vezes que já disse não gostar da sua Medeia.
É assim bom!
* sobre esta temática, e os desafios contemporâneos de interpretação e encenação, existem vários estudos muito interessantes, nomeadamente: "Rebel Women, Staging Ancient Greek Drama Today", editado por John Dillon and S. E.Wilmer
28
Com obras destas, fica difícil escolher um tragediógrafo de eleição. Os três grandes poetas gregos autores de tragédias (Ésquilo, Sófocles, Eurípides) competem belamente, não haja dúvida. Já quase desisto da insistência de que o primeiro deles é realmente o melhor... quase.
Agora a parte gira.
De três anos à boleia em Clássicas, o latim não resistiu lá muito bem, mas isto, curiosamente, ficou:
As Grandes Dionísias, celebravam-se no início da primavera e duravam vários dias durante os quais o público participava em sacrifícios, cerimónias cívicas (como homenagens fúnebres, militares etc.) e, claro, assistia à representação teatral.
Um dia estava reservado à comédia e três à tragédia (com a representação de 3 tragédias + 1 drama satírico).
E quem era este público?
Certamente homens (embora as mulheres, garantidamente, participassem nos primeiros dias do festival para as procissões e sacrifícios) e certamente aliados da Liga de Delos (uma das coligações entre cidades aliadas durante a guerra aos persas - a par da Liga do Peloponeso -, liderada por Atenas. Estas ligas representavam o expoente máximo da democracia grega - gorado pela guerra, claro, do Peloponeso.
De entre as representações que aí tomavam lugar, nas Dionísias, sabemos hoje, ironicamente, que muito poucas obedeciam à temática dionisíaca. Isto talvez se explique - entre várias outras razões de origem esotérica - pelo facto do dionisismo ser um culto flagrantemente feminino. Ora pois, a cultura helénica assentava fortemente na fórmula do patriarcado, logo, em valores misóginos.*
Em As Bacantes, Eurípides - frequente concorrente no festival - retoma a tragédia mítica e traz-nos um rei (Penteu) derrotado pela força do deus (Baco), e um traçado geral da forma como o homem soberano encara a postura, o papel e o "potencial" da mulher ateniense (diga-se desde já que, quando as mulheres são retratadas como Ménades - sacerdotisas bárbaras de Baco - a despedaçar homens e animais em êxtases orgiásticos, o suposto potencial não é propriamente simpático...).
À parte isso, não deixa de ser curiosa a escolha de Eurípides por várias outras razões, entre elas a forma como escolhe apresentar os deuses e os homens - neste caso, o deus e o homem:
Desde logo, porque, para um grego, existem três categorias de seres vivos:
Animais;
Humanos;
Mortais.
Estes últimos obedecem, por ordem, a estas qualidades:
Racional e mortal;
Racional e imortal.
Espantosamente, nem Penteu nem Baco parecem honrar o primeiro desses atributos. Falta a ambos, desde logo, aquilo a que um ateniense chamaria de aretê (virtude essencial para a formação de um herói, por exemplo) e que consistia no respeito pelos valores morais da civilização. Neste caso, e para Penteu, o respeito pelos deuses; para Baco, o respeito pelo inimigo.
Assim, e porque a ambos manca essa qualidade, o rei desrespeita o deus e o deus vinga-se no rei (e na família toda que isto é uma tragédia que se preza!)
Ficam os reis desde já avisados, e contra isto pouco há a dizer:
"Infinitas são as manifestações da vontade divina; infinitos os acontecimentos que os deuses desencadeiam contra o que tinhamos previsto. Os que esperamos, esses não se realizam, os que não esperamos, um deus lhes abre o caminho."
91
Esta peça fez Eurípides subir na minha consideração ao ponto de ficar envergonhada pelas vezes que já disse não gostar da sua Medeia.
É assim bom!
* sobre esta temática, e os desafios contemporâneos de interpretação e encenação, existem vários estudos muito interessantes, nomeadamente: "Rebel Women, Staging Ancient Greek Drama Today", editado por John Dillon and S. E.Wilmer
September 12, 2016
Antigone on PCP
Sophocles' Antigone is about tyranny, or more broadly authority: Creon's need for order vs. Antigone's need for personal freedom. Everyone loses, Creon most of all, and your reaction to Antigone might depend partly on your feelings about authority; if you're a pro-authority type of person, your sympathies might tend towards Creon.
Here we have essentially the same debate. Dionysos shows up in his birthplace of Thebes to start his cult, with a band of ecstatic lady followers in tow. Theban leader Pentheus (also Dionysos' cousin, which doesn't particularly come into play) is all "You guys are nuts and I'm having none of this bullshit." And Dionysos responds.
Because this is Euripides, who's relatively lurid, Dionysos' reaction seems completely out of proportion, at least to me: Holy shit, right? Isn't that sortof a ripoff of True Blood season 2?
But the point is authority vs. freedom, a theme the Greeks returned to again and again - see, in addition to Antigone, that whole Socrates thing. This is about what leadership should be - what should be led and what left alone - and it's a good thing the Greeks spent so much time thinking about it, considering that they were in the process of inventing leadership as we know it. And that exploration, cast through the double-crazy lens of Dionysos and Euripides, is terrific.
Guys, I'm so glad I figured this out. My original review was like "WTF is this, I don't get it," and I feel way smarter now. Also, now I really like this play. High five!
Also: nice to see the old blind sex-shifting prophet Tiresias, as he gets ready to go out Bacchaeing with Pentheus's grandfather:
Well, where do we dance?
Where do we let our footsteps fall
and waggle our decrepit grizzly heads?
which is something I might put on my tombstone. Tiresias kicks ass.
This is a review of the play, not this translation; I used Paul Roche's translation, which was (as usual) fine.
Sophocles' Antigone is about tyranny, or more broadly authority: Creon's need for order vs. Antigone's need for personal freedom. Everyone loses, Creon most of all, and your reaction to Antigone might depend partly on your feelings about authority; if you're a pro-authority type of person, your sympathies might tend towards Creon.
Here we have essentially the same debate. Dionysos shows up in his birthplace of Thebes to start his cult, with a band of ecstatic lady followers in tow. Theban leader Pentheus (also Dionysos' cousin, which doesn't particularly come into play) is all "You guys are nuts and I'm having none of this bullshit." And Dionysos responds.
Because this is Euripides, who's relatively lurid, Dionysos' reaction seems completely out of proportion, at least to me: Holy shit, right? Isn't that sortof a ripoff of True Blood season 2?
But the point is authority vs. freedom, a theme the Greeks returned to again and again - see, in addition to Antigone, that whole Socrates thing. This is about what leadership should be - what should be led and what left alone - and it's a good thing the Greeks spent so much time thinking about it, considering that they were in the process of inventing leadership as we know it. And that exploration, cast through the double-crazy lens of Dionysos and Euripides, is terrific.
Guys, I'm so glad I figured this out. My original review was like "WTF is this, I don't get it," and I feel way smarter now. Also, now I really like this play. High five!
Also: nice to see the old blind sex-shifting prophet Tiresias, as he gets ready to go out Bacchaeing with Pentheus's grandfather:
Well, where do we dance?
Where do we let our footsteps fall
and waggle our decrepit grizzly heads?
which is something I might put on my tombstone. Tiresias kicks ass.
This is a review of the play, not this translation; I used Paul Roche's translation, which was (as usual) fine.
Read
October 5, 2016This is why I dont go to parties
Read
May 11, 2022bu kitabı klasik yunan tragedyası olduğunu varsayarak okumaya başlamayın çünkü bu bir inanç kitabı. üstelik klasik yunan tragedyalarında olduğu gibi sadece karşılıklı kısa diyaloglardan oluşmuyor, hikaye anlatımı da var.
Sabahattin Eyüboğlu kitabı iki farklı fransızca çevirisini karşılaştırarak çevirmekle birlikte Azra Erhat'a kontrol ettirmiş. Metni okurken üçüncü dilden okuyorsunuz gibi bir his hiç yok. O dönemin çevirmenlerindeki bu hassasiyet ve işini iyi yapma aşkına hayranım. Kitabın girişinde Mario Meunier'in Dionysos Dini başlıklı makalesini metinden önce okumakta fayda var, fakat makalenin aşırı akademik ve dipnotlarla bezeli olduğunu söylemeden geçemeyeceğim. Ben geçtiğimiz aylarda birkaç defa başlayıp karmaşık geldiği için bırakmıştım. Dionysos iki kere doğmasından başlayarak özünde ikilik barındıran ve bölgeye göre miti değişen bir tanrı. bu da okuduğunuzu anlamayı, kişileri ve tanrıları konumlandırmayı zorlaştırıyor.
Zeugma öncesi Mainadlarla tanışmam süper oldu, çingene kızını bambaşka bir gözle göreceğim şimdi.
Sabahattin Eyüboğlu kitabı iki farklı fransızca çevirisini karşılaştırarak çevirmekle birlikte Azra Erhat'a kontrol ettirmiş. Metni okurken üçüncü dilden okuyorsunuz gibi bir his hiç yok. O dönemin çevirmenlerindeki bu hassasiyet ve işini iyi yapma aşkına hayranım. Kitabın girişinde Mario Meunier'in Dionysos Dini başlıklı makalesini metinden önce okumakta fayda var, fakat makalenin aşırı akademik ve dipnotlarla bezeli olduğunu söylemeden geçemeyeceğim. Ben geçtiğimiz aylarda birkaç defa başlayıp karmaşık geldiği için bırakmıştım. Dionysos iki kere doğmasından başlayarak özünde ikilik barındıran ve bölgeye göre miti değişen bir tanrı. bu da okuduğunuzu anlamayı, kişileri ve tanrıları konumlandırmayı zorlaştırıyor.
Zeugma öncesi Mainadlarla tanışmam süper oldu, çingene kızını bambaşka bir gözle göreceğim şimdi.
June 8, 2021
"Gods should not be like mortals in temper"
September 28, 2017
Ovo izdanje je bruka, sramota, glupilo, groza, rajzbojništvo, blasfemija, neoprostiva grehota, nenadoknadiva šteta i najbrutalnije poniženje za: srpski jezik na koji je prevedena, (novo) grčki jezik sa koga je prevedena, starogrčki jezik na kome je pisana, sve profesore koji su ovoj osobi što se naziva prevodiocem predavale u svim školama, grčku tragediju kao kulturoški pojam, Dionisa kao božanstvo. Ma, sve!
Ne, nije pogrešno. Sve je suprotno od smisla, ideje, suštine, namere, poente i zakona Kosmosa uopšte!
Urednika koji je ovo odobrio i izdao treba zatvoriti u sobu u kojoj gore svi zapaljeni primerci ovog užasa kojim je vrhunska antička tragedija sa ozbiljnim filozofskim pitanjima i jednom od najkontraverznijim tema antičkog nasleđa svedena na nivo skeča nekakvih vikend satanista!
Oh, zašto sam ovo morala da vidim! :(
Ne, nije pogrešno. Sve je suprotno od smisla, ideje, suštine, namere, poente i zakona Kosmosa uopšte!
Urednika koji je ovo odobrio i izdao treba zatvoriti u sobu u kojoj gore svi zapaljeni primerci ovog užasa kojim je vrhunska antička tragedija sa ozbiljnim filozofskim pitanjima i jednom od najkontraverznijim tema antičkog nasleđa svedena na nivo skeča nekakvih vikend satanista!
Oh, zašto sam ovo morala da vidim! :(
March 27, 2019
Don't mess with Dionysus.
Again, the gods don't take slights well. To be fair, not having your mother acknowledged in her home town can irritate. Pentheus makes the classic mistake of discounting/refuting a god -- big mistake. So we have the hubris of the leader of Thebes leading to his ate (foolish act) resulting in nemesis, which to be fair is a kinda dark and disturbing. Not going to spoil it because it's too awesome, but if you have a familiarity with Orpheus you know where this is headed.
I guess the thing I found most fascinating were the parallels between Dionysus' evolving story line and later cults *cough* Christianity *cough*. Reading this has pushed forward my interest in digging into Orphism.
And don't mess with maenads.
Again, the gods don't take slights well. To be fair, not having your mother acknowledged in her home town can irritate. Pentheus makes the classic mistake of discounting/refuting a god -- big mistake. So we have the hubris of the leader of Thebes leading to his ate (foolish act) resulting in nemesis, which to be fair is a kinda dark and disturbing. Not going to spoil it because it's too awesome, but if you have a familiarity with Orpheus you know where this is headed.
I guess the thing I found most fascinating were the parallels between Dionysus' evolving story line and later cults *cough* Christianity *cough*. Reading this has pushed forward my interest in digging into Orphism.
And don't mess with maenads.
Read
May 10, 2022Very enjoyable. The whole story is seen as a tragedy, but I, personally, had a lot of fun.
I wonder why Nietzsche, who drank only water and milk in his lifetime, was influenced by a god of wine. On the contrary, Dyonisus is not a god who Socrates could respect, because his actions challenge Socrates' beliefs. And Socrates had no problem with alcohol. Who said that birds of a feather flock together ?
I wonder why Nietzsche, who drank only water and milk in his lifetime, was influenced by a god of wine. On the contrary, Dyonisus is not a god who Socrates could respect, because his actions challenge Socrates' beliefs. And Socrates had no problem with alcohol. Who said that birds of a feather flock together ?
April 8, 2015
This is the greatest Greek play I have read. I am just speechless. The way Euripides crafted this play was just...no words can give it justice. The rising intensity, the characters, the writing. I'll leave the rest of my thoughts for my actual review but...wow. Just wow.
June 26, 2017
Σ Υ Γ Κ Λ Ο Ν Ι Σ Τ Ι Κ Ο !
May 3, 2016
Innombrables sont les manifestations de la volonté divine; innombrables aussi les événements qu'ils accomplissent contre notre attente. Ceux que nous attendions ne se réalisent pas ; ceux qu'on n'attendait pas, un dieu leur fraye la voie.
Les Bacchantes (Βάκχαι) sont une pièce écrite par Euripide (-480;-406), mais jouée un an après sa mort en -405, et ayant remporté le prix du concours de théâtre Athénien des fêtes de Dionysos. Elle met en scène le dieu lui-même, retournant dans la patrie de sa mère, séduite par Zeus, et venant chercher vengeance du mépris de ses tantes, qui taxaient d'affabulation l'origine divine de leur neveu, et qu'il punit en les rendant folles. Il s'oppose aussi frontalement à Penthée, son cousin, qui tente follement de s'opposer aux menées du dieu asiatique en enfermant celles et ceux qui lui rendent un culte, si bien que ce Penthée finit lui-même déchiré par sa propre mère en proie au délire, alors qu'il tentait d'espionner les mystères du culte rendu à son rival.
Ce qui ressort de cette pièce, c'est le caractère ambivalent de Dionysos: il offre d'un côté un abord galant, un teint frais, de longs cheveux, des traits délicats, et ses propos son plein de gaité et d'alacrité: il est le dieu du vin et du miel, des douceurs qui font oublier les soucis, délient les langues, font naître l'amour et les discours inspirés; mais d'un autre côté, ce même Dionysos offre un spectacle inquiétant: l'oubli de la raison, la folie, engendrent la violence aveugle, une force démesurée et débridée, un gout du sang, une cruauté joyeuse et sans frein qui plongent dans la stupéfaction et l'horreur ceux qui reviennent à eux-même, après s'être laissé allé à l'ivresse. Au lendemain de la fête, tous les hommes sont perdants: celui qui s'est opposé au dieu, comme celui qui s'y est soumis, tous sont soit tués, soit ravagés par le chagrin; seul triomphe le dieu.
Cette pièce peut offrir de nombreuses prises à l'interprétation, et je propose la mienne à prendre cum grano salis. Penthée représente l'homme raisonnable qui veut enfermer la part de divin et d’irrationnel dans ses raisonnements, comme il charge le dieu de fers dans la pièce. Il ne s'agit pas de critiquer l'usage de la raison en général, mais de celle qui s'aventure sur les terres du déraisonnable. C'est une critique du rationalisme, assez semblable à celle que Platon met dans la bouche de Socrate lorsque le vieux philosophe se moque de ceux qui cherchent à rationaliser tous les mythes, et tirer du sens de ce qui n'en a pas. C'est une critique de ceux qui veulent manier la folie et l'enthousiasme, religieux ou politique, pour leurs propres fins, croyant que leurs raisonnement seront une borne suffisante à la fureur qu'ils alimentent: ils finiront mis en pièce par ce qu'ils ont cru diriger. Mon interprétation, car comme le souligne Tirésias dans la pièce: un rhéteur habile, et fort de son audace, sans raison, n'est qu'un fléau pour la cité.
Les Bacchantes (Βάκχαι) sont une pièce écrite par Euripide (-480;-406), mais jouée un an après sa mort en -405, et ayant remporté le prix du concours de théâtre Athénien des fêtes de Dionysos. Elle met en scène le dieu lui-même, retournant dans la patrie de sa mère, séduite par Zeus, et venant chercher vengeance du mépris de ses tantes, qui taxaient d'affabulation l'origine divine de leur neveu, et qu'il punit en les rendant folles. Il s'oppose aussi frontalement à Penthée, son cousin, qui tente follement de s'opposer aux menées du dieu asiatique en enfermant celles et ceux qui lui rendent un culte, si bien que ce Penthée finit lui-même déchiré par sa propre mère en proie au délire, alors qu'il tentait d'espionner les mystères du culte rendu à son rival.
Le sol de lait ruisselle, il ruisselle de vin, du nectar des abeilles. Il ruisselle - tandis que monte comme une vapeur d'encens de Syrie
Ce qui ressort de cette pièce, c'est le caractère ambivalent de Dionysos: il offre d'un côté un abord galant, un teint frais, de longs cheveux, des traits délicats, et ses propos son plein de gaité et d'alacrité: il est le dieu du vin et du miel, des douceurs qui font oublier les soucis, délient les langues, font naître l'amour et les discours inspirés; mais d'un autre côté, ce même Dionysos offre un spectacle inquiétant: l'oubli de la raison, la folie, engendrent la violence aveugle, une force démesurée et débridée, un gout du sang, une cruauté joyeuse et sans frein qui plongent dans la stupéfaction et l'horreur ceux qui reviennent à eux-même, après s'être laissé allé à l'ivresse. Au lendemain de la fête, tous les hommes sont perdants: celui qui s'est opposé au dieu, comme celui qui s'y est soumis, tous sont soit tués, soit ravagés par le chagrin; seul triomphe le dieu.
O mon enfant, dans quel terrible malheur nous sommes tombés, toi, malheureuse! et tes sœurs chéries, et moi, misérable! Je m'en irai chez les Barbares, malgré ma vieillesse, en étranger. Il m'est encore prédit que je conduirai en Grèce une horde barbare.
Cette pièce peut offrir de nombreuses prises à l'interprétation, et je propose la mienne à prendre cum grano salis. Penthée représente l'homme raisonnable qui veut enfermer la part de divin et d’irrationnel dans ses raisonnements, comme il charge le dieu de fers dans la pièce. Il ne s'agit pas de critiquer l'usage de la raison en général, mais de celle qui s'aventure sur les terres du déraisonnable. C'est une critique du rationalisme, assez semblable à celle que Platon met dans la bouche de Socrate lorsque le vieux philosophe se moque de ceux qui cherchent à rationaliser tous les mythes, et tirer du sens de ce qui n'en a pas. C'est une critique de ceux qui veulent manier la folie et l'enthousiasme, religieux ou politique, pour leurs propres fins, croyant que leurs raisonnement seront une borne suffisante à la fureur qu'ils alimentent: ils finiront mis en pièce par ce qu'ils ont cru diriger. Mon interprétation, car comme le souligne Tirésias dans la pièce: un rhéteur habile, et fort de son audace, sans raison, n'est qu'un fléau pour la cité.
April 13, 2022
آیا در سرود جشنهای شبانه خواهم توانست پاهای برهنهی خود را همراه کاهنههای باکوس بجنبانم؟
«دستانِ همه سراسر خونآلود است و گوشتِ تن پنتئوس را چون گوی به سوی هم میاندازند. اندامهای او اینجا و آنجا میافتد. پارهایی بر صخرههای تیز و پارهای بر انبوهِ سوزنگون کاجهای جنگل.»
آه آگاوه، تو چه شوربختی.
«دستانِ همه سراسر خونآلود است و گوشتِ تن پنتئوس را چون گوی به سوی هم میاندازند. اندامهای او اینجا و آنجا میافتد. پارهایی بر صخرههای تیز و پارهای بر انبوهِ سوزنگون کاجهای جنگل.»
آه آگاوه، تو چه شوربختی.
May 23, 2021
deserved
Read
December 5, 2022this one really has it all. homoerotic rival foil characters. fanatic fevered bacchic maenad girls' night. dismemberment
May 26, 2018
Quando penso a questa tragedia penso solo a Dioniso. E’ lui “ Le Baccanti”. Sullo sfondo in cui si muovono le sue donne, le menadi, rese folli da lui, è Dioniso che tira le fila del dramma. E’ lui che rifiutato dagli uomini come essere divino scaglia la sua furia cieca contro di loro, contro la sua stessa famiglia, fino a permettere che la madre uccida il figlio Penteo.
E’ la tragedia che segue il suo corso al ritmo di tamburelli e flauti, mentre il grido del dio “ Euoè” riecheggia per tutta la montagna fra i balli dei satiri e delle baccanti volteggianti in preda al delirio.
E’ la hybris greca che acceca Penteo e lo castiga, lui che ha negato la natura divina di Dioniso. Non ci sono eroi positivi qui. Dioniso e Penteo si scagliano l’uno contro l’altro accecati dalla vendetta. Forse solo Tiresia riconosce ciò che è giusto fare: coltivare saggezza e venerare gli dei e per questo si piega ad onorare un dio in cui poco crede. Un dramma che avvicina l’uomo al sacrificio da rendere al dio, una divinità che qui è orgoglio e violenza espresse al suo massimo grado. Qui Dioniso non è il dio della vite che rimedia alle fatiche dell’uomo, lo sollazza e lo solleva dalle sue pene, qui è cattiveria e vendetta.
E’ la tragedia che segue il suo corso al ritmo di tamburelli e flauti, mentre il grido del dio “ Euoè” riecheggia per tutta la montagna fra i balli dei satiri e delle baccanti volteggianti in preda al delirio.
E’ la hybris greca che acceca Penteo e lo castiga, lui che ha negato la natura divina di Dioniso. Non ci sono eroi positivi qui. Dioniso e Penteo si scagliano l’uno contro l’altro accecati dalla vendetta. Forse solo Tiresia riconosce ciò che è giusto fare: coltivare saggezza e venerare gli dei e per questo si piega ad onorare un dio in cui poco crede. Un dramma che avvicina l’uomo al sacrificio da rendere al dio, una divinità che qui è orgoglio e violenza espresse al suo massimo grado. Qui Dioniso non è il dio della vite che rimedia alle fatiche dell’uomo, lo sollazza e lo solleva dalle sue pene, qui è cattiveria e vendetta.
August 24, 2018
Euripides'in anlattığı olayın şiirselliğine kendi kaptırarak anlatmak istediğini aslında tam anlatamadığı bir eser olan "The Bacchae / Bakkhalar", erkekle kadınlığın birleştiği şarap tanrısı Zeus'un oğlu Dionysos'un ona tapınmayı reddeden Thebai kralı Petheus'tan aldığı intikamını konu alıyor. Euripides'in aslında insan gibi duygularıyla hareket eden Tanrıları eleştirdiği oyunda Dionysos'un zamanla farklılaşarak İsa'ya dönüştüğünü söyleyebiliriz. Söyleyemesek bile aralarında fazlasıyla benzerlik olduğu ortada. Zaman zaman eksik metne rağmen başarılı bir şekilde yazılmış ve çevrilmiş eser, mitolojik evrenin sınırlarını daha da genişletiyor.
18.08.2014
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
18.08.2014
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
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