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Not Light, but Fire: How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom 1st Edition
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Do you feel prepared to initiate and facilitate meaningful, productive dialogues about race in your classroom? Are you looking for practical strategies to engage with your students?
Inspired by Frederick Douglass's abolitionist call to action, "it is not light that is needed, but fire," Matthew Kay has spent his career learning how to lead students through the most difficult race conversations. Kay not only makes the case that high school classrooms are one of the best places to have those conversations, but he also offers a method for geting them right, providing candid guidance on:
How to recognize the difference between meaningful and inconsequential race conversations.
How to build conversational "safe spaces," not merely declare them.
How to infuse race conversations with urgency and purpose.
how to thrive in the face of unexpected challenges.
How administrators might equip teachers to thoughtfully engage in these conversations.
With the right blend of reflection and humility, Kay asserts, teachers can make school one of the best venues for young people to discuss race.
- ISBN-101625310986
- ISBN-13978-1625310989
- Edition1st
- PublisherRoutledge
- Publication dateJuly 16, 2018
- LanguageEnglish
- Dimensions6 x 0.75 x 9 inches
- Print length278 pages
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Editorial Reviews
Review
"I found myself thinking, 'How different would the field of education be if Matt Kay had advised John Dewey? How different would I be if Matt Kay had been my teacher?' The answer: radically so. He is that important, and his work on race is that essential."
―Cornelius Minor
"This is the book we need to shift the 'tried and tired' practice of touting empty rhetoric about race to a practice that puts us firmly on a pathway toward achieving racial equity. Matt is a master facilitator and shares the tools every teacher needs to hone their practice to make conversations about race commonplace. This book provides not, not a glimpse, but a long gaze into the type of classroom and teaching that can revolutionize education."
―Sonja Cherry-Paul
"A reminder to educators to not sidestep or oversimplify conversations about race, but to engage students in them as scholars with voices and experiences that are just as important as those of the adult in the classroom."
―Ericka Smith, Learning for Justice review
"I’m in love with Matthew’s book. He writes with clarity, passion, and backs up everything he says with experiences or history that hits you right in the chest. As an educator in the world today, we owe it to our students to listen to what Matthew Kay has to say."
―Jacob Chastain, Teach Me Teacher podcast
"Thoughtful, timely, and beautifully written."
―Kelly Gallagher
"I can’t recommend this book highly enough for its scaffolding and stories on how to create a classroom culture that supports serious conversations about difficult topics....Having read this book, in many ways I feel I can’t return to the teacher I was....This is not a book to be skimmed in one sitting, but instead to be digested, then acted upon."
―Sarah Cooper, Middleweb
About the Author
Matt Kay is a founding teacher of English at Science Leadership Academy in Philadelphia. A proud product of Philadelphia Public Schools, he graduated from West Chester University and received his Masters of Educational Leadership from California University of Pennsylvania.
Product details
- Publisher : Routledge
- Publication date : July 16, 2018
- Edition : 1st
- Language : English
- Print length : 278 pages
- ISBN-10 : 1625310986
- ISBN-13 : 978-1625310989
- Item Weight : 1.02 pounds
- Dimensions : 6 x 0.75 x 9 inches
- Grade level : 6 - 12
- Best Sellers Rank: #231,963 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
- Customer Reviews:
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0:44
Author Matt R. Kay discusses his book Not Light, But FireStenhouse-Publishers
About the author

Matthew R. Kay is a proud product of Philadelphia’s public schools and a founding teacher at Science Leadership Academy (SLA). At SLA, he teaches an innovative inquiry-driven, project-based curriculum. He is also the Founder and Executive Director of Philly Slam League (PSL), a non-profit organization that shows young people the power of their voices through weekly spoken word competitions.
He deeply believes in the importance of earnest and mindful classroom conversations about race. Furthermore, he believes that any teacher who is willing to put in the hard work of reflection can, through the practice of discrete skills, become a better discussion leader. Driven by these convictions, he is passionate about designing professional development that teachers find valuable.
Matthew lives in Philadelphia with his wife, Cait, and his daughter, Adia Sherrill & Bennu Jane.
Customer reviews
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Learn more how customers reviews work on AmazonCustomers say
Customers find the book to be a valuable resource for teachers, filled with concrete classroom strategies and information. They appreciate its conversational style and find it makes classrooms more comfortable for discussions.
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Customers appreciate the teaching style of the book, which is filled with classroom strategies and concrete ideas, making it a necessary tool for dialogic educators.
"...Furthermore, a safe space is a space in which there is trust and community to enable something Mr. Kay accurately terms “house talk” to be had which..." Read more
"...To remain creative, innovative, and nurturing of your classroom community and environment, you must have a certain level of free professional license..." Read more
"...This book offers that powerful blend of big ideas and concrete applications/illustrations that mark the best pedagogical writing...." Read more
"...high school, describes strategies and principles for navigating classroom discussions about race...." Read more
Customers find the book highly readable, describing it as a wonderful and important read, particularly for teachers.
"...Great read!" Read more
"...Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom is one of the best books on teaching I've read...." Read more
"...I flew through this book and thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Mr. Kay's description of his classroom culture is one of the highlights of the book...." Read more
"...What a wonderful book. I plan on sharing it with my colleagues. I feel more confident now and I will be trying these strategies. Thank you!" Read more
Customers appreciate the conversational style of the book, with one noting its authentic voice and another praising its pedagogical writing.
"...the cultural significance of names, cultural appropriation, and pop-up conversations...." Read more
"...ideas and concrete applications/illustrations that mark the best pedagogical writing...." Read more
"...He is a skilled orator, conversationalist, and is keenly sensitive to the needs of his students...." Read more
"...His reflections are vulnerable and make him an authentic voice to listen to, because you can tell he has been on the journey it takes to arrive in a..." Read more
Customers find the book makes their classrooms more comfortable, with one mentioning they feel more prepared to approach discussions after reading it.
"...reading this book, a safe space for me was a space that was simply comfortable and accepting; it was a place where students could be vulnerable and..." Read more
"...you hear a lot about how knowing your students and making your classroom a comfortable, creative, safe space is critical to a conducive learning..." Read more
"...However, I feel more comfortable approaching discussions after this book...." Read more
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This book is on fire
Top reviews from the United States
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- Reviewed in the United States on April 14, 2021Format: PaperbackVerified PurchaseI was assigned to read this book for one of my classes at my graduate program for teaching English to secondary education students and I absolutely loved it. The first thing I’d like to comment on is Mr. Kay’s decision to split the book into two parts—the first part having to do with the necessity of establishing a classroom environment that would allow for students to participate in meaningful race conversations and how to create those environments and the second part having to do with how to actually have race conversations with students. I found this format to be extremely powerful because it is absolutely true that no meaningful conversations can happen if the classroom environment does not permit them. Therefore, I really appreciated that Mr. Kay spent the time acknowledging this fact and providing helpful tips and suggestions from his own experience and practice to help us think about how we might set up our own classroom for these conversations rather than immediately diving into how to have the conversations.
Upon opening the book, I was immediately struck by Mr. Kay’s discussion about “safe spaces.” The term is one that I have often heard and often used even to describe my goals for my future classroom yet I don’t believe I have ever learned about how exactly I could create these spaces. Prior to reading this book, a safe space for me was a space that was simply comfortable and accepting; it was a place where students could be vulnerable and share their thoughts and feelings without fear of being judged. Now, however, I realize that a safe space is that but also so much more. As Mr. Kay writes in suggesting how we might create these spaces, a safe space is a space in which everyone listens to each other both actively and patiently. It is also a space in which students must be aware of themselves and their classmates and must take both into consideration in order to offer everyone the space to speak if they wish to. Furthermore, a safe space is a space in which there is trust and community to enable something Mr. Kay accurately terms “house talk” to be had which describes the types of conversations that can occur between people who are very close to each other—the types of conversations like race conversations.
The four topics of conversation Mr. Kay discusses are the N-word, the cultural significance of names, cultural appropriation, and pop-up conversations. I don’t want to give too much away about what Mr. Kay discusses here in my review but I just wanted to say that I am so grateful that Mr. Kay has written this book because I know that these conversations are difficult and challenging even with a classroom environment that enables them to be had. Moreover, I already know that I will inevitably struggle and perhaps even mess up at times, so I really do appreciate having this book to guide me in my endeavors to have these conversations with my students. Great read!
- Reviewed in the United States on May 2, 2022Format: PaperbackVerified PurchaseWhy didn’t I pick this book up sooner? Was my first thought after finishing it. Kay’s Not Light, But Fire is a must-have for any teacher looking to practice culturally responsive pedagogy. His ideas are current and durable. He discusses his personal mantras and frameworks and applies them in real-time. We read as he grows and his classroom shapes. It’s refreshing to gain applicable knowledge like this, because sometimes literature about responsive teaching is too theoretically-based. For example, I loved all of Kay’s community-building protocols. I was especially a fan of him allotting class time for students to talk about interests outside of school. I learned that for us to have meaningful conversations about race in the classroom, we must first allow personal identities to exist, be seen, and be heard within that space. Teachers must also gain students' trust before expecting students to be open to discussing race issues. I work in a school with a high minority enrollment rate, and so it's important to pre-plan before approaching topics that directly affect my students. We don't want to re-traumatize students or make them a designated spokesperson for race topics in the classroom. White teachers need to be especially wary of the latter, because it's easy to pass off our job to inform to victims and eye-witnesses.
We need informative discussions just not war stories. Kay in fact inspired me to implement lessons on Jewish Accomplishments during my Holocaust unit. He tells the reader that if you’re going to showcase the oppression and suffrage of a marginalized group, you must showcase their resilience and joy too. He also imparted a valuable notion that one should stick true to themselves as a teacher. If an administration wants you to start reading a script, rather than coming up with your lessons, maybe it’s time to reevaluate that position. To remain creative, innovative, and nurturing of your classroom community and environment, you must have a certain level of free professional license. No one knows your students as well as you do, and pre-scripted units do not hold the flexibility students need. I for one, adjust and modify my frameworks and lenses as I learn more and grow as a teacher, I don’t think the wheel will ever stop turning in that regard, so I appreciate Kay affirming that and encouraging teachers to defend their creative and professional licenses. Lastly, Kay implores the idea that teachers are in a privileged position, and that they must take advantage of that to better students' learning outcomes. This made me come up with the idea that teacher inaction is an abuse of privilege. I hope to carry on all that Kay has taught me, and I've already spread the word to some of my colleagues who are now eager to read this masterpiece.
- Reviewed in the United States on January 18, 2019Format: PaperbackVerified PurchaseMatthew Kay's brand new book Not Light, But Fire: How to Facilitate Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom is one of the best books on teaching I've read. This book offers that powerful blend of big ideas and concrete applications/illustrations that mark the best pedagogical writing. While the examples all focus on race-related conversations, the book strikes me as directly useful for talking about other historically-difficult conversations as well--if not, in fact, any conversation that needs to be meaningful.
As a result of reading this book, I see my work cut out for me in the years ahead as a teacher. But I also have been able to immediately implement certain practices in my classroom, such as scheduling in more time to help students make personal connections with the course and with each other. Probably the three biggest takeaways for me are: a reminder of how important it is to build community (versus merely declaring a "safe space"), an exhortation to push past the simple and obvious answers to get to the hard questions (we don't have to settle for everyone just trotting out the usual, predictable stances), and the practical insight of linking race-related conversations to larger threads that run through the entire course.
Though Kay writes specifically about a high school context, almost everything in the book applies, with a little adjustment, for college as well, which is what I teach. I have always taught my courses for over ten years now with a heavy emphasis on discussion. In recent years, conversations specifically related to race have been an important part of many of my classes. I wish I had this book when I was starting out. I am glad to have it now.
5.0 out of 5 starsMatthew Kay's brand new book Not Light, But Fire: How to Facilitate Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom is one of the best books on teaching I've read. This book offers that powerful blend of big ideas and concrete applications/illustrations that mark the best pedagogical writing. While the examples all focus on race-related conversations, the book strikes me as directly useful for talking about other historically-difficult conversations as well--if not, in fact, any conversation that needs to be meaningful.This book is on fire
Reviewed in the United States on January 18, 2019
As a result of reading this book, I see my work cut out for me in the years ahead as a teacher. But I also have been able to immediately implement certain practices in my classroom, such as scheduling in more time to help students make personal connections with the course and with each other. Probably the three biggest takeaways for me are: a reminder of how important it is to build community (versus merely declaring a "safe space"), an exhortation to push past the simple and obvious answers to get to the hard questions (we don't have to settle for everyone just trotting out the usual, predictable stances), and the practical insight of linking race-related conversations to larger threads that run through the entire course.
Though Kay writes specifically about a high school context, almost everything in the book applies, with a little adjustment, for college as well, which is what I teach. I have always taught my courses for over ten years now with a heavy emphasis on discussion. In recent years, conversations specifically related to race have been an important part of many of my classes. I wish I had this book when I was starting out. I am glad to have it now.
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Top reviews from other countries
- Brennan CaverhillReviewed in Canada on August 13, 2021
5.0 out of 5 stars High quality ideas for teachers in the classroom
Format: PaperbackVerified PurchaseEXCELLENT listening exercises to build classroom community for any grade, facilitation discussions of race in any class.
- Kelli PowlingReviewed in the United Kingdom on July 28, 2020
5.0 out of 5 stars Pragmatic, Reflective, and Beautifully Written
Kay's accessible framework for how teachers can develop, maintain, and refine the skills to lead meaningful, difficult, important classroom discussion is woven with honest, resonant storytelling and is undoubtedly worth the time and reflective investment of any secondary teacher and their PLC team.