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Lycurgus
Plutarkhos (46-119?): Eserleri 16. yüzyıldan 19. yüzyıla kadar Avrupa’da tarih ve deneme yazımını büyük ölçüde etkileyen çok verimli bir yazardır. Plutarkhos’un Lamprias adlı kataloga göre 227 eseri vardı. Ahlak, din, doğa, politika ve sanat üzerine yazdıklarından günümüze ulaşanlar Ethika adıyla anılır. Yazar asıl ününü Yunan ve Romalı kahramanları birbiriyle karşılaştırdığı Paralel Hayatlar adlı biyografik eseriyle kazanmıştır. Bu eserde bir insanın kişiliğinin kendi kaderine ve başka insanların yaşamlarına olan etkilerini birbirine bağlanmaya çalışmıştır. Lykurgos’un Hayatı bu büyük eserin bir bölümüdür.
Sabahattin Eyüboğlu (1909-1973); Hasan Âli Yücel’in kurduğu Tercüme Bürosu’nun başkan yardımcısı ve Cumhuriyet döneminin en önemli kültür insanlarından biridir.
Vedat Günyol (1911-2004); Kültür tarihimizin Tercüme Bürosu ruhunu, sonraki dönemlerde yayıncısı olduğu Yeni Ufuklar dergisi ve Çan Yayınları’yla sürdüren en önemli aydınlarından biridir.
Sabahattin Eyüboğlu (1909-1973); Hasan Âli Yücel’in kurduğu Tercüme Bürosu’nun başkan yardımcısı ve Cumhuriyet döneminin en önemli kültür insanlarından biridir.
Vedat Günyol (1911-2004); Kültür tarihimizin Tercüme Bürosu ruhunu, sonraki dönemlerde yayıncısı olduğu Yeni Ufuklar dergisi ve Çan Yayınları’yla sürdüren en önemli aydınlarından biridir.
First published January 1, 100
About the author
Plutarch
3,634 books781 followersPlutarch (later named, upon becoming a Roman citizen, Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus; AD 46–AD 120) was a Greek historian, biographer, and essayist, known primarily for his Parallel Lives and Moralia. He is classified as a Middle Platonist. Plutarch's surviving works were written in Greek, but intended for both Greek and Roman readers.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 44 reviews
July 13, 2018
The culture of ancient Sparta has fascinated not only historians and philosophers but the general reading public for generations. Part myth, part history, the life of Lycurgus, the great founder and lawgiver of Sparta, written by Plutarch (AD 46- AD 120) is every bit as alive and compelling today as it was for people living in the time of the Roman Empire. To provide a taste of Plutarch's essay, here are several quotes from the text along with my comments.
"For there was an extreme inequality amongst them, and their state was overloaded with a multitude of indigent and necessitous persons, while its whole wealth had centered upon a very few. To the end, therefore, that he might expel from the state arrogance and envy, luxury and crime, and those yet more inveterate diseases of want and superfluity, he obtained of them to renounce their properties, and to consent to a new division of the land, and that they should live all together on an equal footing; merit to be their only road to eminence, and the disgrace of evil, and credit of worthy acts, their one measure of difference between man and man." ---------- Plutarch marvels at Lycurgus's ability to persuade the rich to give up their property and wealth and live a common life with the rest of the population, living in a common barracks and eating in a common mess hall. And, equally important, men and women would distinguish themselves by worthy, virtuous acts. In a way, such a Spartan way of life was the dream of all the ancient Stoic philosophers.
"Lycurgus ordered maidens to exercise themselves with wrestling, running, throwing the quoit, and casting the dart, to the end that the fruit they conceived might, in strong and healthy bodies, take firmer root and find better growth, and withal that they, with this greater vigor, might be the more able to undergo the pains of childbirth . . . and he ordered that the young women should go naked in the processions, as well as the young men, and dance." --------- Ah, the strong, athletic, wild, sexually-free naked women of Sparta fired the imagination of the ancient world for centuries. As they fire the imagination in our modern world, with our taboos on public nakedness and frenzied dancing.
Plutarch peppers his essay with many of the terse, sharp retorts for which the Spartans were famous. Two examples: "When an orator of Athens said the Lacedaemonians (Spartans) had no learning, a Spartan told him, "You say true, Sir; we alone of all the Greeks have learned none of your bad qualities." A foreigner once asked Archidamidas the Spartan what number there might be of the Spartans; he answered, "Enough, Sir, to keep our wicked men." --------- These two pithy replies exemplify the xenophobia of the typical mindset in an ultra-conservative, militarist, closed society: foreigners are bad, wicked people. Yet, the Spartan's discipline, obedience, physical hardness and exceptional skill as courageous soldiers held a certain appeal for leaders and philosophers interested in creating an ideal state. Sidebar: the word `laconic' comes from the Spartan tendency for brevity and abrupt speech.
"The magistrates dispatched privately some of the ablest of the young men into the country, armed only with daggers . . . the young men hid themselves in out-of-the-way places and there lay close, but , in the night, issued out into the highways, and killed all the Helots they could light upon; sometimes they set upon them by day, as they were at work in the fields." ---------- Another famous aspect of Spartan training to toughen up their youth to become fighting-machines for the state: sending swarms of 12 year old kids out to plunder and terrorize and murder the slave-farmers.
Anybody reading this has access to a computer and also has either direct or indirect exposure to an open cosmopolitan society and multinational culture. We should never take what we have for granted. We are well to know there have been countries and societies, like ancient Sparta, and such possibilities still loom.
Plutarch’s Lives are available on-line: http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu...
August 21, 2019
Of the three Plutarch biographies I have read (Theseus, Romulus, Lycurgus), I found the biography of Lycurgus, the great lawgiver of Sparta, to be the most effective and entertaining. Although his life—like the other two—is shrouded in legend, his individual character is so pronunced, and so clearly embodies the spirit of the people he governed, that everything—including each historicization and speculation—contributes to Plutarch’s vivid portrait of the man. His vision of a nation of fierce, free warriors living in an austere egalitarian state is embodied in his laws, laws that speak clearly of the nature of the man who made them.
To give you an idea of the rigor of the man and the severity of his laws, I will close with a description of one of those laws, the Spartan reaction to it, and Lycurgus’ response.
The most masterly stroke . . . was the ordinance he made, that they should all eat in common, of the same bread and same meat, and of kinds that were specified, and should not spend their lives at home, laid on costly couches at splendid tables, delivering themselves up into the hands of their tradesmen and cooks . . . . For the rich, being obliged to go to the same table with the poor, could not make use of or enjoy their abundance, nor so much as please their vanity by looking at or displaying it. . . . Nor were they allowed to take food at home first, and then attend the public tables, for every one had an eye upon those who did not eat and drink like the rest, and reproached them with being dainty and effeminate.
This last ordinance in particular exasperated the wealthier men. They collected in a body against Lycurgus, and from ill words came to throwing stones . . . . Alcander, a young man otherwise not ill accomplished, but hasty and violent, who came up so close to him, that, when he turned to see who was near him, he struck him upon the face with his stick, and put out one of his eyes. Lycurgus, so far from being daunted and discouraged by this accident, stopped short, and showed his disfigured face and eye beat out to his countrymen; they, dismayed and ashamed at the sight, delivered Alcander into his hands to be punished, and escorted him home, with expressions of great concern for his ill usage. Lycurgus, having thanked them for their care of his person, dismissed them all, excepting only Alcander; and, taking him with him into his house, neither did nor said anything severely to him, but, dismissing those whose place it was bade Alcander to wait upon him at table. The young man who was of an ingenuous temper, without murmuring did as he was commanded; and, being thus admitted to live with Lycurgus, he had an opportunity to observe in him, besides his gentleness and calmness of temper, an extraordinary sobriety and an indefatigable industry, and so, from an enemy, became one of his most zealous admirers, and told his friends and relations that Lycurgus was not that morose and ill-natured man they had formerly taken him for, but the one mild and gentle character of the world. And thus did Lycurgus, for chastisement of his fault, make of a wild and passionate young man one of the discreetest citizens of Sparta.
January 26, 2018
The Spartan Lawgiver
26 January 2018 - Malacca
Well, here I am, sitting in a pub on the edge of the Malacca river, and I have just finished another of Plutarch's lives, namely because I wanted to write a review while I was here (or at least start one since I have ten minutes before we have to head back to the bus station to catch the bus to KL). In a way, these lives are somewhat better than the short, sharp, and shiny Mr Men books, but then again I really can't knock the Mr Men books because they do have a charm about them. Anyway, not only are Plutarch's lives also short, sharp, and shiny, they also have a depth about them that does quite attract me.
Anyway, Lycurgus is a semi-mythical figure (oh, and there goes the Muslim call to prayer) that Plutarch isn't even sure actually exists. One of the main reasons is that pretty much all of the sources are contradictory, though the thing that does seem to follow him around is that he was the person who set up the Spartan state. Herodotus makes a comment that when he went to the Delphic Oracle, the Oracle wasn't sure whether he was a man, or a god, and to be honest with you, the things that this guy did, and his conduct, suggests that he may not have been a real person. For instance, he became king of Sparta when his brother died, but because his wife was pregnant he stepped down and gave the throne to the rightful heir and simply acted as a regent. However, when the suspicion arose that he might kill the king and take his place, he decided to leave and go on a journey.
Now, this journey is the interesting journey because he travelled about Greece learning the laws of the various city states. He took the best and discarded the worst, and when he returned to Sparta (after speaking to the Delphic Oracle to find out what he was supposed to do with his life), he drafted a constitution. Well, not quite, because the Spartan laws weren't actually written down, they weren't supposed to be – instead they were passed down by word of mouth, known as the Rhetora.
Most of the life basically consists of the laws that he drafted and the make up of the Spartan state. Those who are familiar with ancient Sparta (and familiar doesn't include having watched 300), will be aware that not only was Sparta a military power, but was also set up along the lines of a communist regime. Personal property was banned, children were placed in a communal creche, and the husbands didn't even know what their wives looked like. In a way, the family unit, in Lycurgus' view, was actually destructive to society.
Yes, the family unit, the unit that conservative Christians claim should be the nuclear family, which actually isn't quite correct. The traditional family goes much beyond that concept, and with a lot of cultures, it isn't the immediate family that counts, it is actually the clan. In fact the head of the household is not necessarily the father, but rather the grandfather. It is really only the Western Europeans that have created this idea of the nuclear family, which does end up creating a very insular, and isolated, society – once your friends get married, and have kids, all of a sudden you see less of them, unless you happen to be married and have kids as well.
As I mentioned, Sparta seems to be set up as if it were a communist regime. There was no individual ownership of property, and nobody lived in quarters that were better, or worse, than that of the other citizens. Even the kings and the senators would live in similar quarters. Mind you, they weren't allowed to travel either, in case they picked up dangerous ideas and brought them back and corrupted the city. However, while we might criticise the failings of communism, this society did last something along the lines of five hundred years. Then again, it wasn't a dictatorship since there where two kings, and also a senate that would act as a balance between the authority of the kings, and the chaos of the people.
26 January 2018 - Malacca
Well, here I am, sitting in a pub on the edge of the Malacca river, and I have just finished another of Plutarch's lives, namely because I wanted to write a review while I was here (or at least start one since I have ten minutes before we have to head back to the bus station to catch the bus to KL). In a way, these lives are somewhat better than the short, sharp, and shiny Mr Men books, but then again I really can't knock the Mr Men books because they do have a charm about them. Anyway, not only are Plutarch's lives also short, sharp, and shiny, they also have a depth about them that does quite attract me.
Anyway, Lycurgus is a semi-mythical figure (oh, and there goes the Muslim call to prayer) that Plutarch isn't even sure actually exists. One of the main reasons is that pretty much all of the sources are contradictory, though the thing that does seem to follow him around is that he was the person who set up the Spartan state. Herodotus makes a comment that when he went to the Delphic Oracle, the Oracle wasn't sure whether he was a man, or a god, and to be honest with you, the things that this guy did, and his conduct, suggests that he may not have been a real person. For instance, he became king of Sparta when his brother died, but because his wife was pregnant he stepped down and gave the throne to the rightful heir and simply acted as a regent. However, when the suspicion arose that he might kill the king and take his place, he decided to leave and go on a journey.
Now, this journey is the interesting journey because he travelled about Greece learning the laws of the various city states. He took the best and discarded the worst, and when he returned to Sparta (after speaking to the Delphic Oracle to find out what he was supposed to do with his life), he drafted a constitution. Well, not quite, because the Spartan laws weren't actually written down, they weren't supposed to be – instead they were passed down by word of mouth, known as the Rhetora.
Most of the life basically consists of the laws that he drafted and the make up of the Spartan state. Those who are familiar with ancient Sparta (and familiar doesn't include having watched 300), will be aware that not only was Sparta a military power, but was also set up along the lines of a communist regime. Personal property was banned, children were placed in a communal creche, and the husbands didn't even know what their wives looked like. In a way, the family unit, in Lycurgus' view, was actually destructive to society.
Yes, the family unit, the unit that conservative Christians claim should be the nuclear family, which actually isn't quite correct. The traditional family goes much beyond that concept, and with a lot of cultures, it isn't the immediate family that counts, it is actually the clan. In fact the head of the household is not necessarily the father, but rather the grandfather. It is really only the Western Europeans that have created this idea of the nuclear family, which does end up creating a very insular, and isolated, society – once your friends get married, and have kids, all of a sudden you see less of them, unless you happen to be married and have kids as well.
As I mentioned, Sparta seems to be set up as if it were a communist regime. There was no individual ownership of property, and nobody lived in quarters that were better, or worse, than that of the other citizens. Even the kings and the senators would live in similar quarters. Mind you, they weren't allowed to travel either, in case they picked up dangerous ideas and brought them back and corrupted the city. However, while we might criticise the failings of communism, this society did last something along the lines of five hundred years. Then again, it wasn't a dictatorship since there where two kings, and also a senate that would act as a balance between the authority of the kings, and the chaos of the people.
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July 27, 2022Kısa ve fakat samimi bir biyografi. Aynı zamanda siyasetle ve yönetimle ilgili de bilgiler barındırıyor. O nedenle sosyal alanlar ve tarih klasörüme de işaretledim.
August 5, 2018
Yunanlı tarihçi Plutarch / Plutharkhos'un M.S. 100 yıllarında kaleme aldığı "Parallel Lives / Paralel Hayatlar" adlı eserinin bir parçası olan "Lycurgus of Sparta / Lykurgos'un Hayatı", ünlü Sparta Kralı Lykurgos'un Platon'un "The Republic / Devlet"inde bahsettiği ütopik devlet modelini nasıl hayata geçirdiğini ve bu devletin bir yere kadar nasıl başarılı olduğunu yalın bir dille anlatan oldukça öğretici bir tarih eseri niteliğinde. Herodotus'un aksine gereksiz detaylarla okuyucuyu sıkmayan Plutharkhos, ilginç bilgiler ve felsefi alandaki birikimleriyle dikkat çekmeyi başarıyor. Kısa olması sebebiyle çabucak okunabilecek eserin Antik Yunan edebiyatı açısından önemli bir yere sahip olduğunu söyleyemek gerek.
30.07.2015
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
30.07.2015
İstanbul, Türkiye
Alp Turgut
http://www.filmdoktoru.com/kitap-labo...
April 3, 2024
300 Spartalı filminin senaryosu yazılırken kesinlikle Spartalılar ile ilgili yararlanılan kitaplardan biri olduğunu düşünüyorum. Lykurgos Sparta devletinin yasa koyucularından biri ve yaşadığı dönemde parayı kıymetsizleştirip herkesin eşit kazanım elde etmesi, erkek çocuklarının nasıl yetiştirildiği, kız çocuklarınınsa onlardan ayrı tutulmadığı, az ve öz / az laf çok iş kavramlarının 54 sayfada anlatıldığı bir metin.
June 25, 2022
The Life of Lycurgus by Plutarch
Please give my Amazon review a helpful vote - https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-re...
I read this for the Online Great Books program.
In general, I have found Plutarch's Lives to be a difficult slog. His biographies are so packed with detail that Plutarch feels compelled to offer without much of an overriding narrative that it is difficult to pick out the particularly important bits. Perhaps, it takes an effort of stepping back and considering the life as a whole.
So, we have Lycurgus, who founded the Spartan state. A guiding principle of Lycurgus' life was the elimination of luxury. He wanted his Spartans to be simple and uncorrupted so that they would be the military state par excellent. Plutarch explains that this principle determined what Sparta would use as money:
"Not contented with this, he resolved to make a division of their movables too, that there might be no odious distinction or inequality left amongst them; but finding that it would be very dangerous to go about it openly, he took another course, and defeated their avarice by the following stratagem: he commanded that all gold and silver coin should be called in, and that only a sort of money made of iron should be current, a great weight and quantity of which was but very little worth; so that to lay up twenty or thirty pounds there was required a pretty large closet, and, to remove it, nothing less than a yoke of oxen. With the diffusion of this money, at once a number of vices were banished from Lacedæmon; for who would rob another of such a coin? Who would unjustly detain or take by force, or accept as a bribe, a thing which it was not easy to hide, nor a credit to have, nor indeed of any use to cut in pieces? For when it was just red hot, they quenched it in vinegar, and by that means spoilt it, and made it almost incapable of being worked.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (p. 97). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
That will do it.
We also end up with a few stories of the insane adherence to duty that was said to have motivated the Spartans:
"To return from whence we have digressed. So seriously did the Lacedæmonian children go about their stealing, that a youth, having stolen a young fox and hid it under his coat, suffered it to tear out his very bowels with its teeth and claws, and died upon the place, rather than let it be seen. What is practiced to this very day in Lacedæmon is enough to gain credit to this story, for I myself have seen several of the youths endure whipping to death at the foot of the altar of Diana surnamed Orthia.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (p. 111). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
I've read that story before, but it seems that it comes from Plutarch.
Then, there is this:
"Hitherto I, for my part, see no sign of injustice or want of equity in the laws of Lycurgus, though some who admit them to be well contrived to make good soldiers, pronounce them defective in point of justice. The Cryptia, perhaps (if it were one of Lycurgus’s ordinances, as Aristotle says it was), Gave both him and Plato, too, this opinion alike of the lawgiver and his government. By this ordinance, the magistrates dispatched privately some of the ablest of the young men into the country, from time to time, armed only with their daggers, and taking a little necessary provision with them; in the daytime, they hid themselves in out-of-the-way places, and there lay close, but, in the night, issued out into the highways, and killed all the Helots they could light upon; sometimes they set upon them by day, as they were at work in the fields, and murdered them. As, also, Thucydides, in his history of the Peloponnesian war, tells us, that a good number of them, after being singled out for their bravery by the Spartans, garlanded, as enfranchised persons, and led about to all the temples in token of honors, shortly after disappeared all of a sudden, being about the number of two thousand; and no man either then or since could give an account how they came by their deaths. And Aristotle, in particular, adds, that the ephori, so soon as they were entered into their office, used to declare war against them, that they might be massacred without a breach of religion. It is confessed, on all hands, that the Spartans dealt with them very hardly; for it was a common thing to force them to drink to excess, and to lead them in that condition into their public halls, that the children might see what a sight a drunken man is; they made them to dance low dances, and sing ridiculous songs, forbidding them expressly to meddle with any of a better kind.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (pp. 122-123). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
What we end up with is a kind of warts and all approach to history.
Please give my Amazon review a helpful vote - https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-re...
I read this for the Online Great Books program.
In general, I have found Plutarch's Lives to be a difficult slog. His biographies are so packed with detail that Plutarch feels compelled to offer without much of an overriding narrative that it is difficult to pick out the particularly important bits. Perhaps, it takes an effort of stepping back and considering the life as a whole.
So, we have Lycurgus, who founded the Spartan state. A guiding principle of Lycurgus' life was the elimination of luxury. He wanted his Spartans to be simple and uncorrupted so that they would be the military state par excellent. Plutarch explains that this principle determined what Sparta would use as money:
"Not contented with this, he resolved to make a division of their movables too, that there might be no odious distinction or inequality left amongst them; but finding that it would be very dangerous to go about it openly, he took another course, and defeated their avarice by the following stratagem: he commanded that all gold and silver coin should be called in, and that only a sort of money made of iron should be current, a great weight and quantity of which was but very little worth; so that to lay up twenty or thirty pounds there was required a pretty large closet, and, to remove it, nothing less than a yoke of oxen. With the diffusion of this money, at once a number of vices were banished from Lacedæmon; for who would rob another of such a coin? Who would unjustly detain or take by force, or accept as a bribe, a thing which it was not easy to hide, nor a credit to have, nor indeed of any use to cut in pieces? For when it was just red hot, they quenched it in vinegar, and by that means spoilt it, and made it almost incapable of being worked.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (p. 97). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
That will do it.
We also end up with a few stories of the insane adherence to duty that was said to have motivated the Spartans:
"To return from whence we have digressed. So seriously did the Lacedæmonian children go about their stealing, that a youth, having stolen a young fox and hid it under his coat, suffered it to tear out his very bowels with its teeth and claws, and died upon the place, rather than let it be seen. What is practiced to this very day in Lacedæmon is enough to gain credit to this story, for I myself have seen several of the youths endure whipping to death at the foot of the altar of Diana surnamed Orthia.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (p. 111). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
I've read that story before, but it seems that it comes from Plutarch.
Then, there is this:
"Hitherto I, for my part, see no sign of injustice or want of equity in the laws of Lycurgus, though some who admit them to be well contrived to make good soldiers, pronounce them defective in point of justice. The Cryptia, perhaps (if it were one of Lycurgus’s ordinances, as Aristotle says it was), Gave both him and Plato, too, this opinion alike of the lawgiver and his government. By this ordinance, the magistrates dispatched privately some of the ablest of the young men into the country, from time to time, armed only with their daggers, and taking a little necessary provision with them; in the daytime, they hid themselves in out-of-the-way places, and there lay close, but, in the night, issued out into the highways, and killed all the Helots they could light upon; sometimes they set upon them by day, as they were at work in the fields, and murdered them. As, also, Thucydides, in his history of the Peloponnesian war, tells us, that a good number of them, after being singled out for their bravery by the Spartans, garlanded, as enfranchised persons, and led about to all the temples in token of honors, shortly after disappeared all of a sudden, being about the number of two thousand; and no man either then or since could give an account how they came by their deaths. And Aristotle, in particular, adds, that the ephori, so soon as they were entered into their office, used to declare war against them, that they might be massacred without a breach of religion. It is confessed, on all hands, that the Spartans dealt with them very hardly; for it was a common thing to force them to drink to excess, and to lead them in that condition into their public halls, that the children might see what a sight a drunken man is; they made them to dance low dances, and sing ridiculous songs, forbidding them expressly to meddle with any of a better kind.
Clough, Arthur Hugh. Plutarch’s Lives (Volumes I and II) (pp. 122-123). Digireads.com. Kindle Edition.
What we end up with is a kind of warts and all approach to history.
June 26, 2018
Lykurgos, savaşçı Sparta şehrinin ilk kural koyucusu... Parayı değersiz, yurttaşlar arasında eşitliği, erdemi, şerefi, haysiyeti değerli hale getiren, yazılı olmayan kurallarını uygulamaya geçirmiş, Plutarkhos'a göre, yaptıklarıyla dünyayı değiştiren bir filozof kral. İlk ütopya uygulayıcısı belki de. Köleliğin normal karşılandığı bir dönemin kralından beklenebilecek kadar ideal bir devlete yaklaşmış. Kadınların da erkeklere neredeyse eşit olduğu ve saygı gördüğü, bugün birçok ülkede halen erişilemeyen düzeyde bir düzen kurmuş. Kurallarının kalıcılığından emin olduktan sonra tarih sahnesinden kendi isteğiyle çekilmiş. Plutarkhos, nesnel bir biyografi yazmaya çalışmış. Lykurgos'un hayatını kanıtlar göstererek, referans vererek, hatalarını da ihmal etmeden anlatmış. Paralel Hayatlar'ın diğer bölümlerini de okumayı planlıyorum.
August 1, 2022
Lykurgos'un Hayatı
Plutarkhos
Çevirmen: Sabahattin Eyüboğlu, Vedat Günyol.
İş Bankası Kültür Yayınları / Hasan Ali Yücel Klasikler Dizisi 140.
İstanbul, 2010
Plutarkhos (46-119)
yasacı Lykurgosun yaptığı devrimsel yasalar;
-senato,
-toprak dağıtımı,
-ortak sofra,
-demir para.
adam, bi nevi komünizm getirmeye çalışmış. m.s 2150 adlı kitapta anlatılan makrokozmik yaşam tarzını mı hedeflemiş ne.
Plutarkhos
Çevirmen: Sabahattin Eyüboğlu, Vedat Günyol.
İş Bankası Kültür Yayınları / Hasan Ali Yücel Klasikler Dizisi 140.
İstanbul, 2010
Plutarkhos (46-119)
yasacı Lykurgosun yaptığı devrimsel yasalar;
-senato,
-toprak dağıtımı,
-ortak sofra,
-demir para.
adam, bi nevi komünizm getirmeye çalışmış. m.s 2150 adlı kitapta anlatılan makrokozmik yaşam tarzını mı hedeflemiş ne.
July 26, 2019
I read this Life during a summer mom/teacher online course. Our teacher divided the text into 31 parts. We read one small section a day for 5 days of the week. She also recorded the section and posted it on the day assigned. I've been reading Plutarch to my son for 7 years now, but the approach to reading it in these small chunks (and having fellow readers online to discuss the very small portions) made a huge difference in my understanding of the events of a Plutarch story.
There are valuable lessons to learn about citizenship, leadership, and community from Plutarch's Lives. It's well worth it to take your time and reflect paragraph by paragraph.
There are valuable lessons to learn about citizenship, leadership, and community from Plutarch's Lives. It's well worth it to take your time and reflect paragraph by paragraph.
May 5, 2024
Modern problems always need old solutions, Lycurgus saw the Spartans scamming and and crime rate so unbelievable and when you tell somebody to build you're house he would build it with cheap bricks that he didn't promise you and people cheating each other... Lycurgus simple laws as when someone steal would be too harsh to them that no one would try to do these things in the future, the laws of the past are simple and more effective than modern laws that are away from reality, Lycurgus, moses, Muhammad... Search for their laws
May 22, 2022
Bazı kitaplar vardır, birden fazla kere okunmalı, üzerinde düşünmelidir. Lykurgos’un hayatı da onlardan biri.
Anakronizme düşmeden değerlendirilirse öğretici ve bakış açısını geliştirici bir içeriği var.
Okusanız seversiniz bence. :)
Anakronizme düşmeden değerlendirilirse öğretici ve bakış açısını geliştirici bir içeriği var.
Okusanız seversiniz bence. :)
March 13, 2019
Lykurgos, önce kral sonra kral naibi ve tekrar kral olduğu halkının başına geçtikten sonra köklü reformlarla inandığı doğrularla halkını yönetir. Lüksü yasaklar, bu öyle bir noktaya gelir ki dış bağlantılar tamamen kapanır. Ona göre çocuklar babalarının değil yurdun çocuklarıdır.
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October 4, 2019This is the most political of the lives I've read so far. Lycurgus might as well be a personification of the Spartan constitution, and the bulk of the book seems less about Lycurgus than it is about Sparta, the polity admired by thinkers such as Aristotle, and Plato, and it is really obvious with the latter. Anyone who had read the Republic or the Laws will find themselves sensing something familiar about the society being described here.
Here in the life of Lycurgus, you find the dream, not yet dead because its impossible to kill, of a man who through his wise institutions transforms a people into a civilization of heroes.
Lycurgus was aware of the weakness of monarchy. Sparta actually had two kings, not always fit to be kings. “Kings indeed we have...but as for the qualities of their minds they have nothing by which they are to be distinguished from their subjects” One of Lycurgus' first reforms was the establishment of a senate or in its literal meaning an assembly of elders, to remove absolute power from the kings. King Theopompus assures his wife that his children will actually gain through this, they will lose absolute power but gain more secure power, implying the instability of absolute monarchies. Aristotle would later teach that tyrannies don't tend to last long, and here Plutarch brings up Messene and Argos as case examples.
The economic system of Sparta was egalitarian, pastoral, and isolationist. Lycurgus divided up the estates of the nation enough for each family of Spartan citizens to subsist upon adequately in order to “expel from the state arrogance and envy,luxury and crime, and those yet more inveterate diseases of want and superfluity.” He got rid of gold and silver and replaced money with iron, difficult to transport and trade. Even technology was affect as “superfluous” crafts were rid of, and even lights at night were banned so that Spartan men could find there way around in the dark better. All men, even kings had to eat together in a common hall, that they “should not spend their lives at home, laid on costly couches at splendid tables, delivering themselves up into the hands of their tradesmen and cooks, to fatten them in corners, like greedy brutes and to ruin not their minds only but their very bodies”
The Spartans had gained freedom from want; now they were free to be soldiers. Spartan discipline is proverbial. Spartan newborns were euthanized if deformed. Even if they survived this test, they were later bathed in wine rather than water, apparently to get rid of “weak and epileptic children” while those who could endure it were tempered “like steel.” Spartan youths would be whipped and prefer to die without showing pain. Plutarch himself claims to have seen young Spartans whipped to death. They were also encouraged to steal, and only punished if caught. There is the story of a young Spartan who steals a fox and lets it eat through his intestines, killing him, rather than letting the fox be noticed. Even women had to join in exercises and gymnastics and indeed it can be seen that military service and childbirth are both experiences that cowards shy away from.
Family life was dominated by duty to the state. Marriages were not chosen by passion, but Lycurgus assures us that love and affection found itself into these unions regardless, a notion not unknown in other accounts throughout history of arranged marriages. Sexual relations outside of marriage were not frowned upon and even encouraged if the results were to be valuable from a eugenic perspective. Remaining single was a public disgrace and even punishable by law, a measure that was attempted even in Rome later on.
What were the results, but five hundred years of glory. Sparta would defeat Athens in war and gain domination of the Greece by the time Greek civilization was already perishing. I am sure Sparta had a splendid culture, more splendid than Athens, if not in sculpture and monuments then in lifestyle, which dies with the people. Lycurgus in a manner akin to Thamus would rather have the laws memorized rather than inscribed, and speech to be as they say, laconic.
The ideals of submission of the passions before a higher purpose, the recognition that the individual is a part of and owes something to the wider community of which he is a part of are sublime, and it is the admiration of these ideals that has given rise to laconophilia all throughout the centuries. There are severe flaws in the implementation of these ideals in Sparta, and even Plutarch finds fault in later Spartan society, especially in abuses regarding the Helots, the slave caste of Spartan civilization. Grotesque, I also find the infanticide. Isn't it heroism to accept the difficult duty of raising a deformed child with the human dignity it deserves?
I myself believe that heroism cannot be implemented by the fiat of a lawmaker, no matter how brilliant, and that such a system was only maintained by the pressures of a society that needed to prepare for war regardless of the ideals they chose to pursue. If there were to be peace or if Sparta were to suffer a grave defeat in spite of its militarism, people would being to lose faith in the laws. Its both of these factors that most likely led to Sparta's demise in spite of its illustrious laws.
Sparta defeated Athens for the domination of Greece but it did not last. Today, Athens is the capital of Greece, and Sparta is humble village, but by this I think its unfair to make a judgement, and declare one city the winner based on that. Centuries later, when that dreamer Rousseau tried to make the point that no state lasts forever, he chose two examples: “If there is no hope for Rome or Sparta what hope is there for us?”
Here in the life of Lycurgus, you find the dream, not yet dead because its impossible to kill, of a man who through his wise institutions transforms a people into a civilization of heroes.
Lycurgus was aware of the weakness of monarchy. Sparta actually had two kings, not always fit to be kings. “Kings indeed we have...but as for the qualities of their minds they have nothing by which they are to be distinguished from their subjects” One of Lycurgus' first reforms was the establishment of a senate or in its literal meaning an assembly of elders, to remove absolute power from the kings. King Theopompus assures his wife that his children will actually gain through this, they will lose absolute power but gain more secure power, implying the instability of absolute monarchies. Aristotle would later teach that tyrannies don't tend to last long, and here Plutarch brings up Messene and Argos as case examples.
The economic system of Sparta was egalitarian, pastoral, and isolationist. Lycurgus divided up the estates of the nation enough for each family of Spartan citizens to subsist upon adequately in order to “expel from the state arrogance and envy,luxury and crime, and those yet more inveterate diseases of want and superfluity.” He got rid of gold and silver and replaced money with iron, difficult to transport and trade. Even technology was affect as “superfluous” crafts were rid of, and even lights at night were banned so that Spartan men could find there way around in the dark better. All men, even kings had to eat together in a common hall, that they “should not spend their lives at home, laid on costly couches at splendid tables, delivering themselves up into the hands of their tradesmen and cooks, to fatten them in corners, like greedy brutes and to ruin not their minds only but their very bodies”
The Spartans had gained freedom from want; now they were free to be soldiers. Spartan discipline is proverbial. Spartan newborns were euthanized if deformed. Even if they survived this test, they were later bathed in wine rather than water, apparently to get rid of “weak and epileptic children” while those who could endure it were tempered “like steel.” Spartan youths would be whipped and prefer to die without showing pain. Plutarch himself claims to have seen young Spartans whipped to death. They were also encouraged to steal, and only punished if caught. There is the story of a young Spartan who steals a fox and lets it eat through his intestines, killing him, rather than letting the fox be noticed. Even women had to join in exercises and gymnastics and indeed it can be seen that military service and childbirth are both experiences that cowards shy away from.
Family life was dominated by duty to the state. Marriages were not chosen by passion, but Lycurgus assures us that love and affection found itself into these unions regardless, a notion not unknown in other accounts throughout history of arranged marriages. Sexual relations outside of marriage were not frowned upon and even encouraged if the results were to be valuable from a eugenic perspective. Remaining single was a public disgrace and even punishable by law, a measure that was attempted even in Rome later on.
What were the results, but five hundred years of glory. Sparta would defeat Athens in war and gain domination of the Greece by the time Greek civilization was already perishing. I am sure Sparta had a splendid culture, more splendid than Athens, if not in sculpture and monuments then in lifestyle, which dies with the people. Lycurgus in a manner akin to Thamus would rather have the laws memorized rather than inscribed, and speech to be as they say, laconic.
The ideals of submission of the passions before a higher purpose, the recognition that the individual is a part of and owes something to the wider community of which he is a part of are sublime, and it is the admiration of these ideals that has given rise to laconophilia all throughout the centuries. There are severe flaws in the implementation of these ideals in Sparta, and even Plutarch finds fault in later Spartan society, especially in abuses regarding the Helots, the slave caste of Spartan civilization. Grotesque, I also find the infanticide. Isn't it heroism to accept the difficult duty of raising a deformed child with the human dignity it deserves?
I myself believe that heroism cannot be implemented by the fiat of a lawmaker, no matter how brilliant, and that such a system was only maintained by the pressures of a society that needed to prepare for war regardless of the ideals they chose to pursue. If there were to be peace or if Sparta were to suffer a grave defeat in spite of its militarism, people would being to lose faith in the laws. Its both of these factors that most likely led to Sparta's demise in spite of its illustrious laws.
Sparta defeated Athens for the domination of Greece but it did not last. Today, Athens is the capital of Greece, and Sparta is humble village, but by this I think its unfair to make a judgement, and declare one city the winner based on that. Centuries later, when that dreamer Rousseau tried to make the point that no state lasts forever, he chose two examples: “If there is no hope for Rome or Sparta what hope is there for us?”
January 13, 2021
2021 yılına girdiğimiz şu günlerde giderek daha uygar toplumlar olduğumuzu düşünürken, aslında M.Ö. çağlara göre Apple ürünleri ve Mars’a gidebilme ihtimalimiz hariç insana dair pek bir şeyin değişmediğini gördüm:) Para, yemek, zenginlik, gösteriş, vs. gibi hırsların hiç değişmediğini fark etmek şaşırtıcıydı. Kitabın asıl konusu ve kurulmuş olan Sparta devletinin yapısı çok çok çok ilginç. Erdem, ahlak, eşitlik üzerine harika bir sistem kurulmuş olsa da çocukların devletin malı olmasını hangi ahlaki değere sığdıracağımı bilemedim :) Özünde kitap harika, içeriği ise çok tartışılır 😅
November 26, 2020
Sparta rejiminin aşırılıkları büyük ihtimalle efsanelere bulanmış şeyler, biraz da Plutarkhos kendi ütopyasını yazmış gibi, gene de ilginç, pre-sosyalizan yönleri olan bir metin.
Yıldız sayısı, a'dan z'ye onayladığım için değil, ilginç bulduğum için = 4.
Yıldız sayısı, a'dan z'ye onayladığım için değil, ilginç bulduğum için = 4.
July 24, 2022
Sparta was cool and gay af lol
January 27, 2020
Spartans were pretty neat.
September 8, 2022
IV, 5-6: "Nella Ionia si imbatté anche per la prima volta nei poemi di Omero, che erano custoditi, a quanto sembra, presso i discendenti di Creòfilo, e osservò che, in essi, alle sezioni improntate al diletto e al godimento, era armonicamente mescolato l'elemento politico ed educativo, degno di non minore considerazione: cominciò allora a trascriverli scrupolosamente e a raccoglierli, con l'intento di riportarseli in patria. Presso i Greci c'era già una certa oscura fama dei poemi, ma non molti ne possedevano qualche parte, poiché l'opera era diffusa qua e là, a caso: e fu Licurgo il primo che più di tutti la rese nota."
January 26, 2015
This was an interesting biography of the Spartan law-giver whose reforms would become synonymous of what most people thought of Sparta.
The biography itself is apart of Plutarch's Lives, Vol 1.
The biography itself is apart of Plutarch's Lives, Vol 1.
May 5, 2024
Every time I reread this gem, I discover or rediscover.
......
I read this again with a high school senior.
What is leisure for Spartans?
Explain how Sparta is like Hercules.
How is Lycurgus superior to Plato?
Are the Spartans more like ants or bee?
......
I read this again with a high school senior.
What is leisure for Spartans?
Explain how Sparta is like Hercules.
How is Lycurgus superior to Plato?
Are the Spartans more like ants or bee?
September 11, 2017
Sparta Kralı Lykurgos'un hayatını okumakla birlikte, Spartalıların kültürü ve yaşam biçimi hakında fazlasıyla bilgi öğrendiğim bir kitap oldu.
September 15, 2020
Puanım 3/5 (%65/100)
Plutarkhos'un Paralel Hayatlar serisinden şu ana kadar 3 kitabını okudum ve hepsini ayrı ayrı beğendim. Lykurgos'un Hayatı her ne kadar ilginç ve güzel yazılmış olsa da o serideki kitaplar kadar hoşuma gitmedi diyebilirim. Neden hoşuma gitmedi emin değilim. Aslında hoşuma gitmedi demek de garip çünkü kitapta anlatılan şey önemli birisinin hayatı. Sanırım okurken diğerleri kadar eğlenmedim diyebilirim. Yine de başta Sparta tarihi olmak üzere dünya tarihinde de önemli yere sahip Lykurgos hakkında bir şeyler öğrenmek güzeldi. Benim en çok hoşuma giden kitabın son bölümü oldu (Filozof ve Tanrı Lykurgos). Burada Lykurgos'un ölümünden sonra ne kadar önemli birisi haline geldiği anlatılıyor. Hatta ilginç olan şu ki Platon, Diogenes veya Zenon'un aksine arkasında sözler bırakmıyor ve buna rağmen yaptığı şeylerden dolayı insanlar onu adeta tanrılaştırıyor. Yunan daha da spesifik olarak Sparta tarihi ve politikasina dair güzel bilgiler bulunuyor. Kitapta aynı zamanda çok miktarda felsefi konulara da değinilmiş. Kısa kısa birçok bölümden oluşan genel olarak da çok uzun olmayan tek oturuşta bitecek güzel bir kitap.
Plutarkhos'un Paralel Hayatlar serisinden şu ana kadar 3 kitabını okudum ve hepsini ayrı ayrı beğendim. Lykurgos'un Hayatı her ne kadar ilginç ve güzel yazılmış olsa da o serideki kitaplar kadar hoşuma gitmedi diyebilirim. Neden hoşuma gitmedi emin değilim. Aslında hoşuma gitmedi demek de garip çünkü kitapta anlatılan şey önemli birisinin hayatı. Sanırım okurken diğerleri kadar eğlenmedim diyebilirim. Yine de başta Sparta tarihi olmak üzere dünya tarihinde de önemli yere sahip Lykurgos hakkında bir şeyler öğrenmek güzeldi. Benim en çok hoşuma giden kitabın son bölümü oldu (Filozof ve Tanrı Lykurgos). Burada Lykurgos'un ölümünden sonra ne kadar önemli birisi haline geldiği anlatılıyor. Hatta ilginç olan şu ki Platon, Diogenes veya Zenon'un aksine arkasında sözler bırakmıyor ve buna rağmen yaptığı şeylerden dolayı insanlar onu adeta tanrılaştırıyor. Yunan daha da spesifik olarak Sparta tarihi ve politikasina dair güzel bilgiler bulunuyor. Kitapta aynı zamanda çok miktarda felsefi konulara da değinilmiş. Kısa kısa birçok bölümden oluşan genel olarak da çok uzun olmayan tek oturuşta bitecek güzel bir kitap.
February 25, 2022
Tarihte çok az devletin anayasası Sparta anayasası kadar az değişikliğe uğramıştır. Yaklaşık beş yüz yıl boyunca ortaklaşmacı, lüks karşıtı, savaşçı ve köleci Sparta devleti antik dünyanın en güçlü devletlerinden biri olarak varlığını sürdürdü. Sparta anayasasını yazan Lykurgos'un yaşam öyküsü ve şehir devletinin yasaları üzerine Plutharkos'un yazdığı bu kitap en önemli kaynaklardan biri. Plutharkos kitabını çoğunlukla Aristo'nun 158 devletin anayasasını incelediği ve bugün kayıp olan derlemesini kaynak alarak yazmış. Kitabın çevirmenlerinden Azra Erhat da Sparta'yı Nazi Almanya'sı ile Sovyetler karışımı bir rejime benzetmiş. Okuyup kendiniz karar verin.
May 17, 2024
[Lykurgos'un kendisinin de,konuşmalarında kısa ve özdeyişli olduğunu dillerde dolaşan bazı sözlerinden anlıyoruz.Şehirde demokrat bir yönetim kurmasını isteyen bir yurttaşa "Sen demokrasiyi önce kendi evinde kur,"demiş. Bir başkası, tanrılara kesilen kurbanların niçin bu kadar küçük ve ucuz olmasını istediğini sorunca Lykurgos, "Tanrıları her zaman kutlayabilmemiz için,"diye karşılık vermiş...Surlar üstüne sorulara da şöyle karşılık vermiş:"Bir şehrin duvarları tuğladan değil insandan yapıldı mı,surları olmasa da olur."]
Marguerite Yourcenar'ı daha kolay okuyabilmek adına okuduğum kitaplardan biriydi.
Marguerite Yourcenar'ı daha kolay okuyabilmek adına okuduğum kitaplardan biriydi.
September 3, 2023
Saves his nephew from getting murdered by his mother. If he looks away he could have inherited the throne and married the murderous queen and been crowned King of Sparta. Instead he rejoices in saving his nephew and becomes regent for his young nephew. Travels abroad to escape political infighting and jealousies. Learns from Egyptians how they separate the warriors from the merchant class and likes this idea. Learns from other islands nearby how their governments work. Is called back to Sparta and is asked to rule them and establish a new constitution and Laws.
January 4, 2021
Bir iş tutup para kazanmanın kölelere özgü olduğuna inanan Spartalı’ ların devlet yönetimini anlatan kitap çok iyi başlamıştı. Erdemler, bilgelik, eğitim sistemi havada uçuşurken :) aile yapısı, çocuk yetiştirme sistemleri, cılız doğanların öldürülmesi kısımları başımı ağrıttı. Zaten kısa bi kitap muhakkak okuyun 🙄 valla okuyun :)
May 12, 2018
Plutarch explores the life of a legendary lawmaker Lycurgus who transformed the government of Lacedaemonia and its people into something that is dependant upon each other and Plutarch provides many stories of Spartans demonstrating the virtues laid to them by the laws of Lycurgus.
April 23, 2019
fsanevi kral Lykurgosun hayatını,kurduğu sistemi ve belkide tarihteki ilk komün düzenini anlatan bir eser. O dönemde kurulan eşitlik düzeninin 500 yıl sürmüş olması beni çok şaşırttı.Plutarkosun sade ve akıcı diliyle okuması keyifli.
May 26, 2018
Lycurgus created a utopian society which worked so well it lasted 500 years past his death. Such an enjoyable description of his community, his laws and his reasoning.
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